"The abnegation of reason is not the evidence of faith, but the confession of despair."
- J.B. Lightfoot
Friday, June 11, 2004
The saddest irony of The Thinklings site is that the wisest one of us is also the least prolific. Asbell rarely pokes his head out onto the site, unless it's to post a photo of a bird or something. So, this morning, when he left some much-needed remarks on N.T. Wright's view of the afterlife in the comments thread of this post, I decided they needed some special attention. (Plus, I was all out of blog ideas.)
So here's Asbell blogging by proxy (but not by permission ;-)
Wright's comments on heaven and hell are fuzzy, just like the Bible's. He is also being careful not to read the church's later theology back into the New Testament world.
I think he does believe in a future heaven and hell, but probably not in the "traditional" sense. I think Wright sees a heaven that is more "earthly," more physical, a transformation of the here and now that will last forever and ever. I would imagine that his notion of a future hell is not a physical place where God stores the ungodly for all eternity, but more the final judgment against them, where they are forever (finally & completely) separated from God. This may be annihilationism; I'm not sure. Exactly what all of this means, I'm not sure, but I share his hesitancy to emphasize the afterlife. It's so easy to say more than you know.
I find Wright to be refreshing in his insistence that Christianity is not about what happens to your soul after you die. Life's not about just hanging in there until death so you can get your post-mortem reward. I never find Jesus saying "do or believe such and such so that you will go to heaven when you die." He says, "give up your life now and follow me; live a life that truly means something." Followers of Jesus are to live in light of heaven, not merely in anticipation of it.
Followers of Jesus are to live in light of heaven, not merely in anticipation of it. Nice, Asbell. That may be one for the quote rotation.
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Comments on "Asbell on Wright":
2. Blo
- 06/11/2004 5:12 am CDT
I think Wright sees a heaven that is more "earthly," more physical, a transformation of the here and now that will last forever and ever.
I can't wait to find out. I think the Bible does support the idea of a more physical "life after - life after death" it will just be a different kind of physical than what we experince now. Our resurrected bodies will be different - for example.
Followers of Jesus are to live in light of heaven, not merely in anticipation of it. Nice, Asbell. That may be one for the quote rotation.
Great quote - it should be in the rotation.
3. Blo
- 06/11/2004 5:15 am CDT
It is nice to have an Asbell sighting every once in a while.
Hmm. . . Asbell sightings - that might be a good topic for a post. 
4. Bill
- 06/11/2004 5:50 am CDT
Great quote, Asbell.
I agree with what is said here, so I find myself in an awkward position of challenging one of the statements made. Well, not "challenge" per-se, this is more a call for clarification:
I never find Jesus saying "do or believe such and such so that you will go to heaven when you die."
The first two things that popped in my head were John 3:16 (whoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life) and the beginning of John 14:
"Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going."
Again, I hesitate to even bring this up, as I've been in (and instigated, sadly) more than one pointless debate on this blog. I don't want to do that here! This is a great post, and well said, and I agree with it. Again, I just want clarification - it seems to me that Jesus is encouraging His followers to believe and trust, with at least the implication that a result of that belief and trust will be everlasting life, and being in the place He has gone to prepare. I was wondering if we are overstating to say Jesus "never said 'do or believe such and such so that you will go to heaven when you die.'
I look forward to your thoughts. Thanks
5. Jared
- 06/11/2004 7:24 am CDT
Well, since Asbell won't be back till Monday, you'll have to wait, Bill.
I would mention, though, that maybe the concept of "everlasting life" encompasses more than "heaven" -- much more, in fact.
But you are right on the other passage. I think maybe Asbell was just pressed for time and was speaking generally. I'm sure he'd concede your point.
Or maybe not. We'll see when he gets back, and maybe you two can have a knock-down drag-out. ;-)
7. Cos
- 06/12/2004 6:51 am CDT
So what does "Followers of Jesus are to live in light of heaven, not merely in anticipation of it" mean? (another rhetorical question). I am sure that it is different for all of us. For me it is a struggle. 2000 years later we live in much of the same world. We grow up, have families, learn a craft, earn income, pray. The Bible reveals many ways to behave as children of God. Jesus tells us of the life ever after through him.....
I'm rambling.....these are profound words Asbell.
LOL! I never make substantive posts, so Jared makes it look like I did. I approve. Jared, consider the quote used with permission.
I'm still packing for camp, so I gotta run. I will not be able to check back on this discussion until Monday.