"The most important aspect of Christianity is not the work we do, but the relationship we maintain and the surrounding influence and qualities produced by that relationship. That is all God asks us to give our attention to, and it is the one thing that is continually under attack. "

- Oswald Chambers, My Utmost For His Highest
Inspired by a Trackback

The Reverend Jebediah Hoyt, Pastor of First Independent Old-Time Gospel Church and self-described Fundamentalist, responds to Jared's posting of John Stott's views on evangelicals and fundamentalists . . .

First of all, thank you to Mr. Jared Wilson for allowing me this opportunity to respond and present a dissenting opinion.

Secondly, I feel it necessary to point out that I have discovered that Mr. John Stott is an Anglican, which is as close as a Protestant can get to idolatry without out-and-out sleeping with the Whore of Babylon.

Third, and to cut to the chase, here are my responses to these terrible mischaracterizations and scandalous libeling of fundamentalists -- "fundies" as Mr. Wilson calls us . . .

1. Human thought. Wilson writes, "Fundamentalists in general distrust scholarship and can be very anti-intellectual. Evangelicals on the other hand, believe all truth is God's truth, that our minds are God-given, and that we insult God when we fail to think and use logic (or science when it is appropriate)."
Of course we do not trust the academic institutions. They are mostly godless liberals, even allowing so-called "Christian rock" music to infiltrate the seminary dormitories. And to get to the main point: We don't need to think: the Bible does our thinking for us. I think.

2. The nature of the Bible. Wilson writes, "Fundamentalists adhere to a literalism so broad, even they are doomed to violate it."
This false claim made me so mad, I literally blew my top.

3. Biblical inspiration. Wilson writes, "Fundamentalists belief in this regard tend to view the inspiration of Scripture as having occurred in a somewhat mechanical process (Stott points out, much like Muslims see Muhammad taking dictation from Gabriel) in which the human authors were fairly passive."
What a slur! Imagine comparing us to Muslims. Fundamentalists are nothing like Muslims. Muslims tend to be extreme fanatics known for radical legalism and hatred of an immoral world. Fundies, on the other hand . . . um, never mind.

4. Biblical interpretation. Stott writes, "Fundamentalists seem to suppose that they can apply the text directly to themselves as if it had been written primarily for them. They then ignore the cultural chasm which yawns between the biblical world and the contemporary world."
I would respond to this point, but I'm not sure I understand it.

5. The ecumenical movement.
Well, of course, we reject the ecumenical movement! It is perpetrated through the insidious seduction of so-called evangelicals by demonic papists, and it is well known that it is supported by modern Bible translations (which every real Christian knows are the results of a New Age and Masonic conspiracy).

6. The church. Wilson writes, "Fundamentalists tend to hold to separatism and to community withdrawal. They can be isolationist, believing "being not of the world" involves to whatever extent possible "not being in it." They promote schisms between themselves and those who are not as dogmatic about non-essentials in doctrinal matters."
We gladly refuse to distinguish essentials from non-essentials. So, for instance, pretribulational rapturism is just as important as loving one's neighbor (if not more so). In addition, we are not sure what "not being of the world" really means, so we just play it safe and have decided not to be in it as much as possible. Not going to PG-13 and R-rated movies and not listening to secular music makes us feel better and more holy. We're pretty sure that's the sort of thing Paul had in mind when he said come out from their midst and be separate. Paul also talks about meat sacrificed to idols and the weaker brothers, and we've decided the best thing to do is just treat every Christian as a weaker brother, including ourselves. If we look at stuff the world does, we might catch what they have!
In addition, have you seen the sad state of our immoral public schools? They lack Christian influence! The only solution is to take all our Christian kids out of them at once.


7. The world. Wilson writes, "Evangelicals, also view changing the culture from within as more valid, more Scriptural, and more effective than shouting at it from the outside."
This is just illogical. I mean, even the religious leaders of Jesus' day knew changing the world from the outside was the way to go! We believe in being a city set on a hill -- so long as sinners stay far away and just admire the light from a distance. Also, sinners must clean themselves up a bit before coming to God. Imagine God wanting to take in dirty sinners: what a joke!
We think salt is saltiest when it stays in the saltshaker with the other salt. Also, flashlights work best when shone in brightly-lit rooms.


8. Race.
Some of my best friends are black people.

9. Christian mission. Wilson writes, "Fundamentalists seem to equate mission/evangelism with merely preaching the gospel. Evangelicals, in an effort to live out the merging of faith and works, affirm social responsibility."
Well of course we believe hearts come before stomachs. Take a look at Jesus' very first miracle. Wait . . . never mind again.

10. Christian hope. Wilson writes, "Fundamentalists tend to dogmatize eschatology, particularly their understanding of it, which often refers solely to the future."
This is another falsehood. Eschatology is just not that important to us. Millions and millions of Left Behind readers would agree with me. And we all know eschatology is a non-essential. But how this fits with my earlier take that everything is essential, I don't know.
Hmmm. I'll have to think about this in heaven.
Meanwhile, I urge everyone to avoid grocery stores that use UPC barcodes.


While I have the space and y'all got me preachin', here's one more truth straight from the mouth of God Almighty Himself: There is no place in the church service for worldly innovation. More and more churches are using drums and guitars and not singing hymns and sounding more and more like rock-and-roll and showing videos and doing so-called "skits." If an organ was good enough for the first apostles, it should be good enough for us!
That is all.

Trackbacks:

Trackback URL: http://thinklings.org/bloo.trackback.php/353.

Comments on "Inspired by a Trackback":
1. Daniel - 07/10/2003 3:38 am CDT

:-)
That's funny stuff.

2. Bird - 07/10/2003 3:45 am CDT

Ok, call me dense. I notice it's posted as "humor," so this stuff isn't real, right?

3. Bird - 07/10/2003 3:47 am CDT

Ok, I get it.

4. Jared - 07/10/2003 4:26 am CDT

Bird, Jebediah Hoyt is VERY real. He preaches in the church down the road from me, and every week has very clever messages put on his church sign. This week's message:
GUESTS WELCOME
MEMBERS EXPECTED
SINNERS OKAY

5. Bill - 07/10/2003 4:42 am CDT

"SINNERS OK"? Is this for real? Or are you continuing the satire?

6. Bird - 07/10/2003 5:27 am CDT

Hopefully Jeb isn't net savvy so he won't stumble upon our site and sue us for libel. ;-)

7. Eric S - 07/10/2003 6:10 am CDT

{Sounds of many toes being stepped on} Ouch!

But, there's no pain like righteous pain...

;-)

8. Jared - 07/10/2003 6:53 am CDT

Bill, do I really have to answer your question?
Actually, I have seen such a church sign (the first two lines anyway -- the "sinners ok" line is my invention) down the road from my house. There's a little FW Baptist church around the corner that always has the dumbest messages. One week it was "Don't Wait for Six Strong Men to Carry you to Church." I told Beck, it would take six strong men to get me to that church.
But they did one week have a sign that said "Guests Welcome; Members Expected." I thought this was so stupid, because it immediately sets up an inside/outside dichotomy between visitors and so-called "members."
For many churches, the sign is as "seeker sensitive" an outreach tool as they will ever get, yet they are rarely sensitive. They always presuppose churchy language or say something idiotic that will either confuse or turn off a prospective visitor.

Best church sign I've ever seen:
SIGN BROKEN
COME INSIDE FOR MESSAGE

Cheesy, but still a little clever.

9. Rob T. - 07/10/2003 6:55 am CDT

My favorite is "Under same management for 2000 years";"0

10. Bill - 07/10/2003 7:03 am CDT

Well, you had me going...

How about this sign?:

CH   CH

What's Missing?

UR!

11. Jared - 07/10/2003 7:11 am CDT

Bill, that's lame.
But I'm sure that ch ch down the road would use it!

12. Bill - 07/10/2003 7:15 am CDT

I agree - I actually have never seen that one, but PJ O'Rourke saw a church with that sign in Arkansas once and included it in one of his articles (as a point of ridicule, of course)

13. Robert Williams - 07/10/2003 10:07 am CDT

I can't describe just how edified I am by this.

14. Bird - 07/10/2003 10:26 am CDT

Robert Williams...William Roberts...Bill Roberts...Hmm...

Just kidding, I know it's not Bill. I'm currently reading Rod and Robert's little scuffle over at Robert's site.

15. Robert Williams - 07/10/2003 10:37 am CDT

I actually went to high school with a "Billy Roberts". It was a very small school so it was kind of funny. William Roberts and Robert Williams.

16. Bird - 07/10/2003 10:45 am CDT

Did Billy Roberts have a girlfriend named Jill?

17. Dead Man Blogging - 07/10/2003 12:20 pm CDT

Christian Metaphors
Fundamentalists and evangelicals don't agree, or even understand one another, because we are using radically different metaphors to understand how Christians relate to the world. I'll attempt to identify those metaphors, demonstrate how they play ou...

18. Jared - 07/10/2003 1:02 pm CDT

Well, Robert, you know the Thinklings really do just exist to edify you.
Bill, can we change "Humor" in the nexus logo to "Edification"?

19. Jared - 07/10/2003 1:07 pm CDT

The "scuffle" over at Robert's site will have to stay one-sided. I don't plan on visiting again. It's a pointless exercise (for both of us).

20. jen - 07/10/2003 3:07 pm CDT

I thought that was real for the first couple of points. Then I thought the guy must be mad (crazy). Then I got it.

I'm a little slow today.

21. Jared - 07/10/2003 6:56 pm CDT

Does it maybe prove my general point that a couple of y'all actually thought this was real? Hmmmm . . .

22. Robert Williams - 07/11/2003 7:20 am CDT

you know the Thinklings really do just exist to edify you.

I certainly don't think Christians ought to mock one another.

Humor is one thing; mockery and ridicule are different.

23. Bill - 07/11/2003 7:46 am CDT

Hi Robert

I've found that the internet is a perilous place to communicate - I'm quite sure if you and Jared were talking in person you'd both get along great. I don't think anyone is intentionally trying to offend anyone else.

I agree - Christians shouldn't mock one another

24. Bill - 07/11/2003 8:05 am CDT

By the way, Robert has an interesting follow-up post on his blog. It has to do with the proper metaphor for viewing the world and the lost - he opts for viewing our task as a war of liberation. Interesting.

25. Jared - 07/11/2003 12:16 pm CDT

Bill, are you saying you don't laugh at the stuff on those church parody web sites? I know you do. ;-)

It may be mockery, but it's humor for goodness' sake. It's parody. And it's not like people like Rev. Hoyt aren't out there. They do exist. They do say things like this and much worse.
It seems to me that the fact people thought this might be real speaks to the fact that they are aware of people like this out there.
I'm not allowed to make fun of them?

And I also think -- though he doesn't have to respond to this -- that Bill would say he found this funny if a visitor hadn't said they were offended by it.

26. Bill - 07/11/2003 12:31 pm CDT

Whoa cowboy... :-)

All I said was "Christians shouldn't mock one another" - and I think I'm using a different meaning of the word "mock" - the word "mock" is, to me, a very negative word.

I never said I didn't find this funny...

27. Jared - 07/11/2003 12:38 pm CDT

Oh, sorry. Just, in the context of the exchange, it looked like you were agreeing with him about the post. But I should have known you were just "making nice."

Now, if Blo were here, he'd be all wishy-washy. [Blo voice:] Roooood. Beee, niiiice. Don't get haaacked.

Comments are closed