The Mind's Eye

Monday, June 1, 2009

Posted by Bird @ 6:06 pm CDT
Filed under: Theology

I didn't have a choice but to lift you up. And sing whatever song you wanted me to.

-- U2, "Magnificient"

Theologically I'm not prepared to defend to death every minor point of Calvinist theology, but I've found recently the more of God's word I read, the more plainly I understand that our salvation is not our own doing. Sure, real Arminians also believe in prevenient grace, but I can't buy the idea that we have anything whatsoever to do with our eternal destination. (And for the record, I don't think Arminianism is a weak position; I simply think Calvinism carries more Biblical weight.)

For me, embracing Calvinism is embracing a paradigm-shifting thought: I'm not in control of jack squat. I can't will to do good. I can't give God a wink and a nod, saying, "Go ahead, do your stuff in me." And I certainly can't work out my own salvation with fear and trembling; it's got to be God working in me, and it is. I'm comforted knowing that what He starts He completes, and He'll perfect His work (both in me and my family) until the day of Christ JESUS (Philippians 1:6). I know that's true. I have no fear of losing salvation because it's not up to me to keep it. He will come through.

In the past I've dipped my toe into the waters of Calvinism, but I've never (I don't think) flat out said I was a Calvinist. I guess that's what I am. The theologically snooty part of me would rather be called a monergist or even an Augustinian, but Calvinist works just fine.

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Comments on "My Name Is Eric, And I'm A Calvinist":

1. Crossbow - 06/01/2009 8:39 pm CDT

Wait a second... did you type this in wrong: "And I certainly can't work out my own salvation with fear and trembling;" ? Wouldn't that be in direct contradiction with Phillipians 2:12-13? Or that one of those weird Calvinist things that only makes sense to people that believe in it in the first place?

2. Bird - 06/01/2009 8:58 pm CDT

My point is I can't work it out, but God works it out in me. Anything good I do is God working in me. Same for you, 'bow. :-) So it's not me who can do anything, but God working through me.

3. Crossbow - 06/01/2009 9:39 pm CDT

Well, that's the problem - that's not what the verse says: "So it's not me who can do anything, but God working through me." It is saying "So I can do this thing, because God is working through me." It's not either/or. It's both. If you think you can do anything without God, you are wrong. If you think you can just sit back and do nothing while God magically lifts your body and forces your mind to think what he wants it to ("magically zap you" as I heard someone at ACC call it once), you are also wrong. It's one of those paradoxes that you can't explain.

I remember some Greek scholar-type dude once talking about why the Calvinism/Arminism debate didn't happen in Biblical times. Because there are many times in the Bible, OT and NT, where people were told they had to make a choice to follow God or not. If Calvinism is true, then those verses are misleading. We can't make a choice. But if Arminism is true, then everywhere we are told we can do nothing without God's power are false. (and, yes, I know that really smug people on both sides can explain away all verses that contradict their side. Yeah for them. They are misguided). No matter what side you choose, if you are honest with yourself you have to admit that there are verses that contradict what you believe. So why wasn't there debate about that in the Bible? Or why was God so vague about it in the first place? Anyway, this scholar guy was saying that in the Greek mindset, choices are not action. You can chose to do something, but that doesn't imply action on your part at all. It's only in some what recent times that we have begun to associate any type of action to the decision making process.

I've heard a bunch of stuff since then that would shoot a few holes in that line of thinking, but nothing that totally disproves it yet. But most Greek scholars are pretty biased, so I'm sure there will be something that

I personally don't believe in a God that makes understanding the basics of following him so difficult that you have to have a pretty high IQ to even know if you really are saved or not. Of course, if you are a Calvinist, you can never trully know if you weer chosen or not :) I personally think both Calvinism and Arminism are full of crap because of that - I've met some pretty great people in different places in the world that just don't have the education to understand either way. And I've watched friends or ours trying to explain to them how they can know they are saved from a Calvinist perspective. They just don't get it. But then, you get them into Arminism, and soon their whole church is struggling with works-based junk.

So.... anyways... enough rambling on that. How does a Calvinist explain the salvation process in a testimony? One year, you are separated from God, totally living in sin. The next year, you are in a right relationship with Him and He is working through you to complete His good work. But how did you get there? Most people would say they decided to follow God, or thought a lot about it and then realized their need for God. But then somehow they magically start following Him. Because they can't make a choice or have a realization that they need to follow Him - that is them working to get saved. So... how do do describe salvation in a Calvinist mindset? Not theologically - practically. How do you explain how you got from Unrepentant Sinner to Worshipper without using words like "decided" or "realized"?

For that matter, what do you use in place of the word 'repent'? It literally means 'to choose to change and go the other direction.' Or Repentance: 'a change of thought and action to correct a wrong and gain forgiveness from the one wronged.' Jesus didn't say "let me work through you to make you repent." He said "You - repent!"

4. Bird - 06/01/2009 10:08 pm CDT

I'll say again, it's not "I" who can do anything. "I" can only do anything because of God working in me. Apart from that, there is nothing "I" can do.

I personally think both Calvinism and Arminism are full of crap because of that - I've met some pretty great people in different places in the world that just don't have the education to understand either way.

While I think you've raised some valid points, I don't see the point in debating Calvinism or Arminianism with someone who thinks either position is "full of crap." That's what you think -- great. Be blessed.

Personally I think either position is valid and has Biblical merit. I also realize that the question of synergism vs. monergism has been one that has been on the Christian mind since NT times. It's not a debate that's limited to 20th or 21st century theology.

The next year, you are in a right relationship with Him and He is working through you to complete His good work. But how did you get there?

I'd say they were there 2000 years ago when Christ died for them. To put it in Pauline terms, God foreknew them and predestined them to be conformed to the image of His Son.

About the salvation issue, I don't know any Calvinists or Arminians who believe you have to understand the intricacies of their theology in order to be saved. That's ridiculous.

5. Jared - 06/02/2009 1:31 pm CDT

2 Timothy 2:25 indicates God grants people the ability to repent.

I'm having the same "I, but not I" convo with Dan Edelen at my blog.
Dan has brought up the idea that God sort of gets the ball rolling with our salvation and then the rest is earned by our "sweat equity" (his words).
Sounds anti-gospel to me. Yay. I get to sweat out my salvation. Wonderful news. How hard exactly? When do I know I'm sweating enough? (And btw, how pathetic and cheap was Christ's atoning work that he needs my work to pay the balance on his down payment?)

Thank God it is God who works in me to will and act according to his purpose (Phil. 2:13), that it is not I who live, but Christ who lives in me.
I would be totally screwed apart from monergistic grace.

I know others "make it work."
Calvinism works for me b/c it helps me make more of God than of me, and it convicts me toward grace to others b/c my salvation isn't b/c I figured something out they didn't or made better choices.

6. Debbie - 06/03/2009 3:47 am CDT

Dude, do Mom and Dad know?

7. Bird - 06/03/2009 7:27 am CDT

Mom asked me: "Have you tried not being a Calvinist?"

Just kidding. :-)

8. Les - 06/14/2009 9:43 pm CDT

I have to come to the other side of crossbow's argument. I think the debate is crap. It's fun, but it's crap. I have gone back and forth for so long that I consider myself now to be a firm Calminianist.

Of course, it's easy to focus on crossbow's "crap" comment and gloss over his very valid arguments. For me I have to go to the basis of the whole thing. My perception of God is that He is SO sovereign that He is capable of creating a being with completely free will. If God is incapable of creating a being with free will to exercise on his own, then God is not truly sovereign. And if God IS capable of creating a being with free will, but does not, He is not a God of Love. He says he puts life and death before us and then urges us to "choose life." Doesn't sound like manipulation to me. So the argument that, in order to be sovereign God MUST manipulate His created beings, contradicts itself. Much like moral relativism.

I'm sure this reveals how little I understand about the myriad nuances of Calvinism. I would certainly stipulate that. The path is far too tortuous to maintain my interest. But the Calvinists I know and love keep me open to understanding more, so I follow it as far as I can, at least until I feel the foundational Love of God slipping away. That's as far as I can go.

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