The Mind's Eye

Sunday, April 19, 2009

Posted by Bird @ 11:29 am CDT
Filed under: Bible, Theology

Everyone approaches exegesis and Bible study with presuppositions. For example, one of my presuppositions is that the sacrament of water baptism is not salvific, and that influences my interpretation of Acts 2:38:

Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of JESUS Christ for the remission of sins ..." (NKJV)

Many Evangelical commentators say that "for" in that case, actually means "because of," or "due to," even though I can't locate a single popular English translation the renders the Greek in that way. (That's not to say that a minority English translation like that doesn't exist.) Just about every translation I can find seems to indicate that, in Acts 2:38, the forgiveness of sins is linked to baptism.

On a related note, if you were to go with the baptism=forgiveness route, then you'd have to concede that John's baptism had the same effect:

John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
-- Mark 1:4 (NKJV)

Despite some exegetical ambiguity, my presupposition on this matter remains intact.

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Comments on "Presuppositions":

1. Tami - 04/20/2009 3:59 pm CDT

Bird,
Tami here from the old OWOA. I think that it needs to be remembered that the baptism of John took place during the time of the Old Covenant. Acts was under the new covenant or the new law. Christ came and fulfilled the law. Baptism was not a new concept to the Jews. You can research the word "Mikvah" and read up on that...although you may already have. I think that it is important to note that Acts 2:38 doesn't mention "believe....". I think that the people in Acts 2 believed and wanted to know what to do for salvation.

Yes, you can probably guess that Jeff and I believe that baptism is part of the steps of salvation. I grew up evangelical...penacostal and it was quite a change when I came to the belief in the importance of baptism.

2. Bird - 04/20/2009 5:46 pm CDT

Hi, Tami. Thanks for your thoughts. Out of curiosity, what denomination are you and your husband part of now?

3. Tami - 04/20/2009 6:33 pm CDT

We're not. It takes searching sometimes to find a church that believes the same we do about baptism but they are there. Being part of a demonination was another hang up of ours. In Christ, I just don't see denominations. If we are in Christ, we're in Christ. Churches in the New Testament seemed to be individually governed. Did they help each other at times...yes but there's no example that I've found of a governing body, a doctrine or creed that that all the "churches" had to follow etc.

Through out our moves we've ended up in Churches of Christ more often than not. There is an International Church of Christ that is a denomination but many with the name XXX Church of Christ simply use the name Church of Christ because it was a name used in the NT and because it just defines that we are Christ's Church. As with any church it takes going to a particular one and asking questions to find out where they stand on different subjects to find out if that is where we as a family fit. There can be very conservative (no cards, no music, no eating at the church building...type conservative) and very liberal (what the bible belt conservatives consider liberal anyways) churches with the name "Church of Christ"

4. Bird - 04/20/2009 6:58 pm CDT

Churches in the New Testament seemed to be individually governed. Did they help each other at times...yes but there's no example that I've found of a governing body

I think a lot of things factor in to the fact that the church didn't have a governing body in the NT, not the least of which is the fact that the church was so new. The great heresies of Gnosticism, Arianism, etc. had not fully presented themselves yet (when they did the response of the church was canon and creed), and much of the NT had not been written or circulated.

I don't have a problem with denominationalism, and even in my non-denominational church, I still think we're something akin to a denomination, even if it's ethereal. Something like North American Evangelical Protestant. You could stick that label as a denomination on my church's front door, and it would fit, because it's true.

I think even in Acts you see structure and authority within the brand new church. For example the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15. There was a clear doctrinal question -- do Gentiles need to be circumcised and keep the law? -- and on the one side were Paul and Barnabas and on the other side were the men from Judea who believed that converts should keep the law and be circumcised.

And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.
Acts 15:2 ESV

Here the solution for the church was to send Paul and Barnabas to Jerusalem to see what the apostles and elders had to say about it. By the end of it all, the same authority in Jerusalem said their final decision "seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us."

I think it's a lot easier these days to have non-denominational Christianity because we rest on the shoulders of 2,000 years of Great Tradition and orthodox theology. Even anti-creedal denominations are, many times, completely in-line with the Nicene Creed.

5. Tami - 04/20/2009 9:59 pm CDT

Bird, maybe we have a different understanding of what a denomination is. You say your church is non but could be a denomination in a way because it fits into a sort of North American.....

I understand a denomination as being a church that must report to a corporate office or headquarters somewhere else. Yes? No?

6. Jeff - 04/20/2009 10:28 pm CDT

We believe that water baptism is necessary in obedient response to the command of Jesus. Baptism is to be performed only upon repentant believers in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (Matt. 28:18-20).

Necessary for what?

7. Bird - 04/21/2009 7:30 am CDT

I understand a denomination as being a church that must report to a corporate office or headquarters somewhere else. Yes? No?

I see denominationalism as more about organization than about necessarily reporting to corporate offices or HQs (thought many certainly do).

For example, the denomination I grew up in, the Baptist General Convention of Texas doesn't require affiliate churches to "report" in any such way. Baptists strongly believe that the convention exists for the churches, and not the churches for the convention. Baptists pride themselves on church autonomy.

Necessary for what?

Necessary because it was a command. To not be baptized is a sin, but certainly not the unpardonable sin.

8. Jeff - 04/21/2009 12:15 pm CDT

"Necessary because it was a command. To not be baptized is a sin, but certainly not the unpardonable sin"

I would say Necessary yes, but not just because not to is a sin... that is a weak stand. But let's go ahead and look at it in those terms. Without repentance are you in a saved state? So how would you repent from this sin?

9. Bird - 04/21/2009 1:35 pm CDT

I would say Necessary yes, but not just because not to is a sin... that is a weak stand.

That certainly is a weak position. Thankfully I didn't say it. :-) I said it's necessary because it was a command. When JESUS commands, we do what He says. Besides, His commands are for our blessing.

Without repentance are you in a saved state?

Absolutely not. Repentance and faith go hand-in-hand. As with anything with regard to salvation, both repentance and faith are a gift of God.

So how would you repent from this sin?

Naturally, by turning from it and obeying JESUS, but that does not mean that the act of obeying Him with regard to baptism brings about salvation. I believe repentance is an inward realization of your sin at the moment of conversion, just like faith; and more time in the Word and walking in His ways brings more revelation of sin that needs to be repented of.

But to say that every single sin must be repented of individually or else there is not salvation is erroneous (if that's what you're saying). I assume that you believe that one can lose salvation, correct?

10. Jeff - 04/22/2009 12:52 am CDT

"But to say that every single sin must be repented of individually or else there is not salvation is erroneous (if that's what you're saying). I assume that you believe that one can lose salvation, correct?"

If you willingly do not repent of a sin and thus are living in sin, yes I believe you are at risk of loosing your salvation. Example- you are a Christian, let's say even baptized, but then you decide to live a homosexual life and will not repent of this lifestyle. That I believe puts your salvation in question, would you not say so? Are you trying in your heart to please God? If not then do you really have a relationship? David sinned many times but kept trying to please God, key is he didn't quit. If you know God's command is to be baptized then you choose not to do it, where is your heart? Do you think the 1st generation Christians studied after hearing the Gospel before being baptized? Definitely not. They did so immediately as we all should and need to do, as God commands.

11. Bird - 04/22/2009 6:28 am CDT

let's say even baptized, but then you decide to live a homosexual life and will not repent of this lifestyle. That I believe puts your salvation in question, would you not say so?

I'd definitely say so. From my perspective, though, I'd say that unless someone ultimately repents of some continuous, rebellious sin (like your example), he wasn't a Christian to begin with. For example:

Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
1 John 3:8-9 ESV

12. Jeff - 04/24/2009 10:50 pm CDT

You still have yet to answer the question, how do you repent of the sin of not following God's command to be baptized? If you know or have been presented the command and do not follow it and as you say that is a sin then you are choosing to live in that sin. Basically your saying Obedience is not required in any way by God, you can just ignore his commands and your still covered... Can I just go about and ignore any command I choose or is this one the only one you can choose not to follow?

13. Bird - 04/25/2009 6:38 am CDT

Jeff,

See my answer at #9.

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