"It may be useful to remember that Christian faith is ultimately dependent upon what actually happened rather than upon the views of historians."
- I. Howard Marshall
Wednesday, September 10, 2008
Here's the Situation:
My mom has a friend in the UK who recently came to Christ. She has NO Christian community and is hungry for it. All the churches in her area are old beautiful buildings with dead congregations.
Is there some sort of directory of Bible-believing evangelical fellowships?
Is there a person or ministry over there that she can contact?
I know that they have had some dynamite Bible conferences over there before, is there a website that lists such things?
Do you have any suggestions so I can try and get this lady in touch with a genuine Bible-teaching, spiritually-growing Christian community?
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Comments on "A Plea For Help From My Bretheren Across The Pond":
2. Debbie
- 09/10/2008 4:16 pm CDT
Many of my friends are involved in New Frontiers churches and I have friends from Antioch (in Waco) who planted a church in Sheffield.
But, yeah, where is she???
I'm actually moving there next week, Shrode! But I'm trying not to think about it or my head might explode with all that must be done!
4. British Nathan
- 09/10/2008 5:30 pm CDT
Cool! The country's riddled with good churches. Infested, I tells ya. There's a website called www.findachurch.co.uk, which might be a good start.
How brilliant that she should have found God and be so longing for Christian family. Praise God for that, and I pray she'll find great people she can bless and be blessed by.
All the best!
N
5. Paul Wilkinson
- 09/10/2008 5:37 pm CDT
I'm in Canada, but we're more aware here of what's happening in the UK. If she goes into any Christian book store (they call them book shops) she'll see a bimonthly devotional booklet called Every Day With Jesus. It's similar to the Our Daily Bread booklets here in North America, but you have to buy them. Inside each one there are lists of the upcoming conferences being put on by the parent organization, CWR.
I'd also try to see if there's a local chapter of British Youth For Christ. Next, I'd try to reach the regional contact for the Alpha Course program. YFC and Alpha people would be in touch with a wide variety of churches, and would know where the "action" is so to speak. The largest conferences there are summer festivals (like we have here) called Spring Harvest and Greenbelt. (Greenbelt is very "alternative" by North American standards.)
The website "Sites Unseen" lists a number of British church websites in the section "Uncommon Communities of Faith" at http://www.zoecarnate.com/
They also have a house church index link.
Finally, you can read an index of some different UK Christian bloggers at "Quantum Tea" at http://www.quantumtea.com/ukgodblogs/
though many of them are Anglican or Episcopalian, which is what I sense she may be trying to get away from; though there are some more "on fire" Anglican churches.
6. Stacy
- 09/10/2008 8:28 pm CDT
My brother attends a New Frontiers church here in the United States, and the website for New Frontiers in the UK is http://www.newfrontiers.xtn.org/uk/ The website has a church search.
Also, a friend of mine just went to England as an intern (basically) at a small Baptist church in Plymouth.
8. Pigwotflies
- 09/11/2008 6:09 am CDT
I'd second, (or is it third?) looking at the New Frontiers website. I'm in a New Frontiers church in Cambridge.
You could also try the Evangelical Alliance church search.
http://www.eauk.org/churchsearch/
9. Shrode
- 09/11/2008 9:26 am CDT
I don't know where in England yet, but I'll find out. A few questions:
What does "Bishopsgate" refer to?
What is a CofE? Oh, church of England?
What is New Frontiers?
Is there a way I can learn about the state of Christianity in England? Is there an article, I can read?
What are the different denominations? What are their theological beliefs? What are the numbers? Who's doing evangelism over there?
The impression I have had is that England has relatively few practicing Christians. Where can I get an accurate picture?
I guess the Church of England isn't very monolithic? How can I find out about the differences within the Church of England?
10. Karl
- 09/11/2008 9:35 am CDT
Others with more direct experience can share more specifically, but my impression is that the Church of England isn't monolithically liberal the way that its American analogue, the Episcopal Church, is.
Yes, there are many CofE churches that meet in beautiful (or not so beautiful) parish buildings and that are no more alive than the deadest ECUSA church. But the CofE is also the church of John Stott, Alister McGrath, N.T. Wright and (across the pond) J.I. Packer. It's where the ALPHA courses were started.
In short, there is a much stronger evangelical undercurrent, or substantial minority presence, in the CofE than there is in any of the American Mainline churches.
11. Brian
- 09/11/2008 11:10 am CDT
I've been reading this guy's blog for a while and he just planted a church which is part of the Evangelical Presbyterian denomination. Seems like a solid fellow who is committed to the Gospel. While he might not be local to your mom's friend, he could be a good contact for finding a church.
12. Pigwotflies
- 09/11/2008 12:20 pm CDT
Shrode,
Bishopsgate is the street in London where St Helen's is located. It's an interesting place, right in the heart of the City (the main financial district) and the 'Gherkin' aka the Swiss Re building towers over St Helen's. St Helen's itself has a reputation for solid evangelical biblical teaching.
CofE is Church of England. The CofE is a pretty mixed bag, from the most liberal wishy-washy churches, to alive and vibrant Biblically-based churches to everything in between. That's the beauty and the frustration of it. (I grew up in a CofE church. I have a great affection for it, but I'm sometimes glad to be out of it).
New Frontiers is a family of churches which has its roots in churches that began on the South coast of England in the 1970s-ish. It's headed up by Terry Virgo. The best way to find out out about it is the website http://www.newfrontiers.xtn.org/ or Terry's blog http://www.janga.biz/terryvirgoblog/. Adrian Warnock's blog would give you a pretty good flavour of the theology and preaching of New Frontiers. http://adrianwarnock.com/.
As for how many practicing Christians there are in the UK, that's a tricky one. The usual figure that gets bandied about is 10%. I think that's the proportion of church-goers.
Denominations - lots! CofE is probably the biggest. Fair proportion of Catholics. Various non-conformists, Methodists, Baptists, etc. What used to be called 'house churches', the newer ones that began in the 60s and 70s eg New Frontiers, Ichthus. Pentecostal churches, Assemblies of God are the main Pentecostal denomination. I could go on.
Truth is, it's pretty confusing. The church is either declining or thriving, depending on where you look. Some places (particularly cities) have a huge array of good churches. Other places, they're pretty thin on the ground. I'd say the best way to find a church in a place you don't know is to do what you're doing, ask for a personal recommendation. Ideally find a friend of a friend of a friend who can take you to their church. Isn't it cool being family on a world-wide scale?
13. Debbie
- 09/11/2008 2:34 pm CDT
Hey Shrode, re the state of Christianity in England, I have TONS of articles I've bookmarked. I haven't been able to read through them all, but it's basically the secular media noting the major decline of Christianity in the UK. I also know of some unofficial statistics I can dig up, if you like. They're from pastors from the UK.
If you're interested I can email them to Bird and he can forward them on to you. Just let me know.
14. Shrode
- 09/11/2008 2:50 pm CDT
Yes, Debbie, please send them.
Thanks!
Everyone else, thank you sooo much for your help.
I'm trying to find out what area of England this lady is in, and when I find out, I'll let you all know.
Question about New Frontiers: Is it a charismatic group? That's OK with me, but this recent post by the New Frontiers founder concerns me.
http://www.janga.biz/terryvirgoblog/?cat=7
After praying for a while I thought I noticed a slight movement below the thorax. I wondered whether my eyes were playing tricks on me so I rested my palm gently over the area – and felt it move. I asked his wife to feel the same place but she said she couldn’t feel anything. We continued to pray and I saw his collar bone move up and down!
We pressed on and then I could hear breathing noises. Then he began to snore and at this time his wife called him and he responded with a grunt! I felt it was time for me to leave and I went in and assured the children that their Dad was OK.
Was he raised from the dead? Well, I think if I hadn’t gone in with impartation from the Florida outpouring we would all have been wailing on Sunday; rather he came to stand with his wife before the church as a great testimony.
Hallelujah! I am hungry for more of this present outpouring.
John Kpikpi
2nd June 2008
As you are prayerfully pondering the significance of what is taking place at Lakeland, Florida at the moment, you might like to ponder the implications of this item of news. To God alone be the glory!
15. Karl
- 09/11/2008 3:39 pm CDT
Within the CofE, another helpful clue might be to find one that is doing, or has recently done, the ALPHA program.
ALPHA is a "basic Christianity 101" type of course that is designed to be evangelistic - each church member is encouraged to bring a nonchristian friend and you watch a series of videos over several weeks that walk you through a Mere Christianity-like presentation of what Christians believe, and are then left with a "what are you going to do about it?" type of ending. It has been widely praised (and criticised - a couple of the presentations take specifically charismatic positions on spiritual sign gifts). It's pretty solidly evangelical and I'd expect any church that used it would have at least some real spiritual life going on there. Not b/c the ALPHA program produces life but b/c the dead and/or liberal churches wouldn't like the ALPHA program.
16. Pigwotflies
- 09/11/2008 4:34 pm CDT
Yes, New Frontiers is charismatic and committed to God's word and grace-filled and lots of other exciting things I could say. (Someone who visited my church on Sunday described it as being less weird than some charismatic churches they'd been to.)
As for the Lakeland events. There's an earlier post from Terry's blog on what's been happening, which begins with some cautious negatives and ends with an attitude of watch and pray. Lakeland, Florida part 1, part 2. It was also printed in the magazine which goes to all New Frontiers churches. I'd say the response to that testimony from John Kpikpi was pretty much in line with that - Praise God when people are healed rather than a wholesale endorsement of all that's going on in Florida.
18. British Nathan
- 09/12/2008 3:42 am CDT
I'm not a New Frontiers chap but would second PWF's response. New Frontiers are definitely charismatic but... how should I put this? in a beautifully sane way, y'know? They believe in healing and prophecy and tongues and all that but they do so because they've honestly come to it from the New Testament rather than because they're seeking after signs and wonders for the sake of it. So, while the blog entries PWF refers to are rightly concerned about Todd Bentley's... um... well, everything, really, they'll not discount God working in that arena through people's faith in him - bypassing the speaker, as it were.
19. Debbie
- 09/12/2008 11:03 pm CDT
Sorry I haven't sent you the articles yet, Shrode. Ike came along and we've been scrambling to get prepared. If I still have internet, I'll send them on later tonight...I don't think I'll be sleeping...
Leave a Comment:
Well--WHERE in England? We had a tremendous time worshipping in London at St. Helen's Bishopsgate, a CofE church committed to sound teaching--Dick Lucas used to be the Rector. Maybe if she writes them at:st-helens@st-helens.org.uk
for suggestions.