What a shame that people use the name of Christ in such terrible ways.
And even more of a shame, if you follow links from that article to other links, you find some very angry people that now have VERY bitter feelings about Christianity.
Very sad.

too sad

I'm so tempted to jump to conclusions about this, but I'm reminded of other times that secular publications have attacked ministries based on the allegations of (often clearly reprobate) ex-participants. That said, as a recovering pentecostal myself, I'm saddened but not surprised as the demon-behind-everything approach to what appears to pass for counseling there. *sigh* Yet another ministry founded on the idea that Ez. 18 doesn't exist (especially verses 3 and 19-24). I don't deny the demonic component in homosexuality, but by the accounts in the story, this place is whacked.

Here are some quotes from the counseling model they use at Mercy Ministries, it's called Restoring The Foundations and these quotes come from the section on exorcism and how to do it to clients.

http://againstbiblicalcounseling.blogspot.com/2008/10/rtf.html

http://againstbiblicalcounseling.blogspot.com/2008/10/rtf-volume-ii-saga-continues.html

They don't believe in psychiatric treatment and think their methods of exorcism are superior.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqqzFt4Fjxo

Sarah
a Mercy Ministries survivor
www.mercysurvivors.com

Sarah,

The tone of that "Against Biblical Counseling" site seems opposed to quite a wide range of practices and beliefs, many of which aren't even in the same ballpark with one another. Generically speaking, mere Biblical counseling is quite different from the more extreme (and far more questionable) practices of so-called "deliverance ministries." It kind of comes off as a being opposed to anyone or any group that has ever used Scripture and prayer to help someone who is hurting or struggling with sin. Simply because some self-proclaimed "ministries" do more harm than good doesn't make all Biblical counseling itself a bad thing or something to speak out against. But that site, and those that seem to frequent it, are rabidly anti-"Christian counseling" and seems pretty much anti-Christian in general. When I read the comment thread about a national ban on all Christian counseling, I pretty much wrote off the site.

It's not my site. I haven't read the other things on it because not all was relevent to Mercy Ministries.

I just found info about the RTF manual on it and that's why I gave you the link. I don't know what else is on the site, but I have read what was said about the RTF and it was true. Sorry if linking to it offended you in any way, it wasn't my intention at all.

Sarah, no offense taken here. Thanks for commenting.

Blessings.

Thanks Jared, it's really great of you to help put the truth about them out there. That place almost cost me my faith. ALMOST.

Sarah:

I'm sorry you are being received as an ax-grinder. I'm sorry you are getting a debate instead of a welcome.

MM count on discrediting people with no power and you don't need sheltered theology geeks spouting off.

The road to hell has been paved with good intentions, and it's naive to believe Australia was an abberancy.

As the Australian home story played out, powerful people (around Hillsong) attacked The Herald and filed a complaint. The Press Council had to rule.
The complaintant lost. I suspect he isn't used to that.;^)


Abuse survivors can appreciate the courage of the former residents and the work The Herald reporter had to do to get this atrocity into the public spotlight. Kudos to Australia's Consumer and Competition Commission for stepping in and enforcing their regulations.

If it's any consolation, I've recently talked to a couple of reporters in the US.

The difficulty they are running into is substaniating facts.

Contrary to assumptions there are Christians working in 'secular' media, MM counts on dismissal and either/or labelling.

MM will continue to throw it's considerate corporate weight behind insuring media don't have the opportunity to coloberate facts.

This isn't a good blog to discuss the 'how' of exposing MM, nor discussing your personal experience.

Jared has a good heart and he is just in calling for celebrities to grow up and stop throwing their money at a flawed model.
It's all he can do.

Sarah,you have my deepest respect for pointing to a safe space online for former residents and workers to speak.
You have my respect for pointing to someone willing to read and expose the manual, angry or not.:^)
At the Thinklings there is theology to defend, not people to honour.

Putting the truth out is important, your healing is more important. Anger is a healthy surivial response and a primary emotion needed in healing. MM counts on it's sheltered monied churched base throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
The Mercy Ministry survivors website is excellent, thank you for providing solid international resources.

At the Thinklings there is theology to defend, not people to honour.

Not true.

Bene,

I'm blown away. I just read this comments thread again. There were a few cautions mentioned by Eloquorius to Sarah, and that was about it.

Sarah, let us know if we've offended you in any way. I hadn't followed this thread as closely as perhaps I should have.

Bene - why do you despise us? The only Thinkling who even commented on this thread was Jared, and he was quite gracious to Sarah. I don't understand - is it our politics? That we're Americans? What is it?

I don't consider us a theological watchblog/defense site. We talk about all sorts of things. Not that supporting and promoting good theology isn't worthy work.

What should we have done that we didn't do? Let me know.

Thanks

Bill

Gee, BD, way to use one person's comment (and not one of the bloggers) to beat up on the site. If I didn't know better, I'd say you were "an ax-grinder" who has "theology to defend, not people to honour."

Bill, it doesn't matter. It's been like that with Bene for as long as I can remember. Tolerance and fairness for everyone but Texan, Baptist, conservative, whatever it is Bene thinks we are. I've tried to talk about it with Bene before, more than once. Doesn't work. Bene doesn't see it. We're in the box and there's no getting out.

A long, fine comment with one little graceless cheap shot in there. Didn't surprise me. I knew it'd be in there when I started reading it.
Found it odd to find a commendation of my heart before it showed up, but oh well.

Just got done with some emails about Mercy Ministries and yep, I'm angry.
I'm angry for Mercy Ministry workers who couldn't take anymore.
I'm angry for ex-residents who are trying to be heard.
I'm angry for the people in the lives of these girls and women who believe glossy websites and freebees.

And currently I'm very angry for reporters who are discouraged, frustrated and hitting dead ends.
They get paid, will get over it and get to move on to the next story, ex-residents and workers don't.

I'm not impressed with Eloquorius' categorizations, but I suspect that is how Eloquorius relates to his/her world.

Yes, Jared was gracious to Sarah.
I'm glad he and Becky aren't adopting through Mercy Ministries. Jared got complimented, thanked and apologized too.
His daughters aren't Sarah, they are never going to have to go to a Mercy Ministries.


Bill, this is not about you, do you get that? Everything. is. not. about. you.

You ready to stop projecting and stop making this about me?
Why not get your hands on the manual and give it a good theological thrashing, that's some of what you are good at.

Why not find some time to catch up on what happened in Australia what is happening in the US and why there are 'ax-grinders' attempting to get your attention. And using 'secular' media.

Please get a clue. Seriously. Get up to speed on this story if you are going to post it and talk about it.
What these girls and women have been through is not going away and you have the ability to help the powerless.
Do you have any idea how hard US survivors have worked to get media to pay attention?
No, of course you don't.

"What should we have done?"

That's a fair question.

When you post stories where it is known people are being abused - monitor your thread.

Set limits for your commenters.
Sometimes there is just no room for ignorance or spiritualizing no matter how well intentioned or sincere.
This isn't about Alcorn being outed by indy media although that is a fair topic.
This is about Sarah, Anna, Jenniem, Niomi, Megan, Jennifer, Lisa, Jodi, Madeline...


96 girls went through that Australian home.
It's about them.

Get offended for them Bill.

400 girls and young women are on a waiting list in the US.

Get offended for them Bill.

And when Mercy Ministries comes up in the news again (and it will) are you going to allow commenters call ex-residents ax grinders?

Get over yourself Ancient Mariner and start understanding how frightened and intimidated some of the people trying to speak up really are.
If you can do something with that amazing brain of yours to help girls and young who have gone through this program and come out more messed up, go do it.


Take the place of a teacher in Australia who died about a week after helping expose this mess. His work wasn't finished.
Step up for him.
Do it for the young woman who attended the program and committed suicide last week.

Did you read what Sarah. said? Did you?
"Sorry if linking to it offended you in any way, it wasn't my intention at all."
"That place almost cost me my faith."

Do any of you know what Sarah has been through?
I don't.

When you post about places and people who commit such spiritual, psychological and mental abuse, monitor your comments - monitoring is one good thing you can do.

This is your site, if you actually think you are hated, if you are blown away, upset, believe you are despised or think there were 'just a few cautions' then remove my comments.

Bene, projecting your anger about this onto us in an assumption that we're not doing anything to help anybody is uncharitable and stupid and arrogant.

I'd give you my "caring" credentials but you're not really interested in them anyway.

Do any of you know what Sarah has been through?

No.
I do know what it's like to almost lose my faith because of the spiritual abuse of pastors. Not sure if that qualifies me for your "you're okay" hall pass.
Not sure I care.

We're not the enemy.

Quit being a jerk or go away.

BD: get over yourself. As it happens, the only person attacking anyone here is you; Eloquorius didn't attack Sarah (or anyone else), but simply offered a side comment about other aspects of the website she cited, having already said, "by the accounts in the story, this place is whacked."

As it also happens, hereabouts it's a different organization; I'm sorry if the people to whom I'm ministering aren't on your pre-approved list. At some point, you might want to stop and take a look at yourself and realize you're guilty of the same sins as the people in these organizations you're bashing. You simply have a different set of ironclad presuppositions and prejudices, and the fact that distance dilutes the effect of your self-righteous arrogance--that's all.

Anyway, shouldn't let BD succeed in his mission of making this all about him . . .

Sarah, thanks for helping us understand. I'll be praying for you, and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

Bene,

I'm not going to remove your comments or anyone else's.

Fight the good fight against abuse. Just remember who the enemy is.

Peace

Bill

Wow, that article is scary and sad. I hope the supporters of this organization will read it and be willing to listen and learn the truth. It's unfortunate that so much good work done by other, responsible Christian ministries in this arena will get tarred with the same brush.

Elo,
I never wrote a threat about banning all Christian counseling. I spoke about banning exorcisms of children. I would not support a ban of all Christian counseling, particularly since I think integrationist Christian counseling can be effective with many patients. I am opposed to biblical counseling, which is a movement started by Jay Adams, also known as nouthetics. I am not oppossed to counseling that uses the Bible, nor have I said so on my site. All I said about biblical counseling was that it needed some government regulation, not an outright ban, and primarily only regulation on issues like whether biblical counselors can give advice on medication.
You also aren't reading the comments very closely. Lissa (Alissa) is a Christian, as is Meghann (and the ex-mercy girls may be too for all I know). And actually, though Cynic Sage is highly critical of evangelicalism, he is also a Christian. And I grew up in the evangelical church myself, even though I no longer count myself an evangelical (I'm an agnostic).
The reason I group reparative therapy, deliverance ministeries, and biblical counseling together is because, unlike integrationist Christian therapy, these psychological therapies have a tendency to be vulnerable to abuse. Both biblical counseling and deliverance ministries are known for their inherent psychophobia. Again, this is unlike Christian integrationist counseling. I am not saying deliverance ministries and biblical counseling are the same, and I would personally rate deliverance ministries as much the more dangerous of the two. But, as you will see from some of the quotes I posted from Asher and Asher, biblical counseling has its fair share of abuses.
As a Christian, you should not be distorting my words. I find it disheartening that I am accused of several things I didn't even say. I merely talked about the possibilities of regulating biblical counseling and exorcism. I did not speak for an outright ban, nor would I support that, as I believe it violates seperation of church and state. I do believe that government regulation is needed, and I will continue to support that position.

Well said John

John,

I take it you own the "againstbiblicalcounseling" site. I never accused *you* (the owner, personally) of wanting a ban in Christian counseling. What I mentioned (see reply #5 above) was a "comment thread" (i.e., by commenters) on your blog. If I read too quickly and the discussion was only about "child exorcisms" then I'm sorry.

Jay Adams is one of the heroes of the faith to me; a giant in the history of Evangelicalism who is now all too forgotten and misunderstood. On the book rack next to me is an entire shelf dedicated to his books (The Jay Adams Library, by Zondervan). You state that, "Biblical counseling is a form of counseling founded by Jay Adams, which holds that mental illness is a sin." This is untrue. In fact, Adams writes:

"Counselees with problems of this sort [schizophrenia] may have an organic problem; perhaps a tumor on the brain or, as may be more likely, a perceptual disorder resulting from chemical malfunction in the body." [Jay Adams, The Christian Counselor's Manual, pg. 384].

In that same book he has an entire appendix on a "further discussion on organic/nonorganic problems and a discussion of cooperation with physicians." (pg. 384) I have in front of me Adams' inch-thick counselors manual and nowhere does he call organic mental illness itself a sin as you claim. Quite the opposite, he expressly views the Christian counselor as an adjunct to the physician. However, he acknowledges that organic problems (e.g., brain chemistry) can lead to sinful expressions, but never that the organic mental illness itself is sinful.

To give advice on medication in the course of professional practice is, technically, practicing medicine and illegal in all states without a medical license. They can be sued or prosecuted. Perhaps some ignore this, but since anyone can claim to be a Christian I have to take each case individually. That said, I've never met a pastor or Christian/Biblical counselor who would go anywhere near giving pharmacology advice or tell counselees what to take or stop taking.

You're a former evangelical turned "agnostic" (your word), now posting broad guilt-by-association articles; i.e., accusing all of evangelicalism of child murder because of Andrea Yates. Sorry, that's just absurd and mere fodder for malcontents. Frankly, other than defending untruths spoken against Jay Adams, I have no desire to (further) hijack the Thinklings' blog to debating such absurdities.

Eshto,
To be frank, don't pull that crap with me. You know that Adams's definition of "organic" is so narrow that it includes practically no mental illnesses in it. Not chronic depression, anorexia, OCD, bulimia, etc. At most, Adams accepts that certain limited forms of schizophrenia may have a biological cause, as well as people who are severely brain damaged. Only someone who is blind would not see that. Adams asks "Is the fundamental problem of persons who come for personal counseling sickness or sin?" on pg 19 of Competent to Counsel, then spends most of Chapter III of the book pretending that most mental illnesses aren't real. Adams says "Clearly the burden of proof lies with those who loudly affirm the existence of mental illness or disease but fail to demonstrate biblically that it exists." Then Adams says "What then, is wrong with the 'mentally ill'? Their problem is autogenic; it is themselves. The fundamental bent of fallen human nature is away from God." (29 Competent to Counsel) That is obviously stating that mental illness is sin and has been interpreted as such by both b. counseling supporters like Asher and Asher and by opponents like myself.
I have a DVD where Wayne Mack, one of the leading members of NANC (at least formerly), clearly implies to his clients that they should not take meds and gives unsolicited medical advice.
Oh, and the Andrea Yates post is actually an idea that has been frequently suggested to me by my father. WHO IS EVANGELICAL. You want to engage in the verbal bullying tactics, go ahead. That's what biblical counselors are good at, right? Nouthetic confrontation? But that does not make me prejudiced against evangelicals. To me, evangelical psychophobia is a perversion of a great religious tradition. I will always love evangelicals and evangelicalism and your self-serving statements aren't going to change that in the least. Sometimes we have to hurt a system we love, to make it better.