It's where you end up if you start with the belief that killing someone isn't the worst thing you can do to them.

Mariner--

Don't we, as Christians, start with the belief that dying isn't the worst thing that can happen?

I'm not saying Che-worship isn't ridiculous--but the soul is, generally speaking, more important than the body.

I have to admit that I'm completely confused by these comments.

AM, I don't believe killing the physical body is the worst thing that can happen to a person. I'm not sure how that relates to Che or to the larger point regarding the current Che fad and the way it overlooks the more murderous aspects of Che's way of bringing about revolution.

Are you defending Che? Or am I missing the point?

I think I'm missing the point . . . :-)

You're both missing the point I was trying to make. Is physical death the worst thing that can happen to a person? No, of course not. Which isn't what I said. I said it's the worst thing you can do to a person; politically speaking, life is the most basic of all rights, the right on which all other rights depend. When you lose track of that is when you start to believe that killing people isn't as bad (as long as it's in service of "the greater good," or to purify them of their political heresy, or something like that) as what Wal-Mart does.

And we need to be careful not to make the gnostic body=bad/less important, soul=good/more important distinction.

"You're both missing the point I was trying to make."

heh, well I have to keep my streak of point-missing going, don't I?

Also, Hank, I get ya, but there is a distinction - the soul is more important:

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell - Matt 10:28

AM - I think I got your point. It's like typical Social Gospel folks. They worry all about poverty and politics and miss things like human life - both spiritual and physical.

I read your comment on an idictment on the "save the environment, pro-choicers" who think it's OK to kill your baby, but get upset when you throw a coke can in the trash.

But, hey, I could be off base.

I've not heard the term "pop Che Guevara worship".

What is it/What does it mean?

Well, it's a clumsy term (I coined it, naturally).

I'm referring to the images of Che that are starting to appear again in pop-culture. I saw online where you can buy Che golf-ball markers. Kids wear Che T-shirts. Hollywood is making Che movies that lionize him. He's kind of a folk-hero, even though in real life he was a brutal murderer, on a quest to establish what we now know was the most discredited (and brutal) governmental system of the 20th century.

So Che Worship is fad worship?
Or is it worship that is brutally dangerous?

All of the above?


What are some examples of fad worship and how do they relate to the Wal-Mart sentiment? (Should i just go to the link?)

Shrode, that's one aspect of it; though I was reacting more to the lions of the left who picket and denounce "big box stores" as evil money-grubbing small-town-killing environment-wrecking poor-exploiting soulless corporations grinding the vulnerable into the mud of the earth, but think that mass murderers like Che, Pol Pot, Mao, etc. are heroes to be praised and acclaimed.

AM, is it possible that both Che and Wal-Mart are bad, in different ways?

Bill, I think Jesus is saying that killing the body and soul is the ultimate death; if one just kills the body, well that's bad, but in the end Jesus can raise the body and reunite it with the soul.

I'm not certtainly accusing anyone here of heresy; I like the stuff I'm reading here to much to think that - it's all good, solid stuff. But it would be easy to fall into the split and decide we do not need the body anymore, 'cause after all, it is material and we all know that the material=teh eval!

Seriously, I believe that we just need to be reminded that the body and soul, together, united in one person is what God declared at Creation "good;" separate any one of them from the other and it is bad.

Does that make sense? I have a headache and can never be sure I'm coherent enough for other people...

"Seriously, I believe that we just need to be reminded that the body and soul, together, united in one person is what God declared at Creation "good;" separate any one of them from the other and it is bad. "

Yeah, I agree.

Karl: yes; but even so, there's a difference of at least an order of magnitude. (And personally, though the Walton empire is certainly flawed like any human institution, I don't think Wal-Mart is bad, taken as a whole.)