I'm forever trying to take pictures of myself that match the expression I make to myself in the mirror. Never works.

On the other hand, having lost some weight recently, I'm beginning to like pictures of myself. They seem to match better with how I think I look.

Heh heh! Gosh yes, the Cool Face. I'm sure I do it. I think I may tilt my head forwards a bit so make myself feel like my hairline's a bit lower than it really is and make my eyes look sort of bigger. Certainly on photos I look a bit balder and with sort of squinty little eyes. A bit like a woodpecker.

On the other hand, I still get people asking me what I'm studying, which never fails to make my day =o)

how old are you nathan?

I don't know if I feel old in pictures. but I think a lot of women, especially dancers (that's my world, and all I know), always see themselves as being bigger than they are. it's a mentality that I've had to just condition myself to saying "no, you're fine" but now I think I may actually be bigger....but then I don't know if I just *think* that I look bigger or if I actually am O.o

but yea, people's opinions are generally worthless anyway. I've found that a lot of well-meaning people lie to be nice.

I look in the mirror and see.....De. :-) That could have been my story, nearly exactly. I'm 43, 6'3" 230+, but have gained 40lbs since I got married 14 yrs ago. I've lost a lot of hair, so I just skin it as close to the scalp as I can without breaking out the Mach 3. I do play the bass, which adds to the cool factor, but having a little bit of a gut cancels that out. When my nearly-3 year old daughter climbs up on my lap and starts whapping my gut, I just kind of "sigh" until she throws her arms around my neck and squeezes my sighs away.

But invariably, people think I'm 33 or so, which is a kick. :-)

Eyeballs lie. No doubt about it. And from hour to hour, even! Even more so when you're trying to deal with a big change in your appearance. I look in the mirror one minute and think "Wow! Hi there you cutie!" I blink and it's "Who are you kidding, you're still FAT!"

When I was fat, I didn't believe the mirror either. I would pose to look my best, and avoid looking at my worst. T'was a photograph that shocked me back to reality.

Photographs are invaluable. Now I compare before and after shots to try and convince my eyeballs that I really don't look fat anymore.

I'm trying to give up wondering what other people see... It's impossible to ever know anyway. Example - I wore a rather appealing (though still modest) dress to the Mall with my family last week. Yes, I did see some men looking at me. But I was also surrounded by four bouncing boys dressed in matching USMC t-shirts. And we're in a racial minority... So who knows why people were actually staring. (shrugs)

"I've found that a lot of well-meaning people lie to be nice."

It's interesting you'd say that because, while that is certainly true, I've found a far more common phenomenon is that people simply can't accept encouragement or compliments.

It took me a long time, for instance, to just learn to say "thank you" when people would compliment me on how I played bass (I'm a bassist and have had stints in church worship bands and in Christman programs). Once, after the first night of our "Christmas Cafe" program at church, I had probably five people tell me "Wow, Bill, you did well". I actually argued with several of them because I had, in fact, made a lot of mistakes (but it's bass - heh - who can hear 'em? :-) - but I realized later that, actually, I had done pretty well. These were challenging songs, often jazzy, and on one or two I had some more featured bass lines that may have surprised some of them, as they hadn't known me to be much at jazz.

I repented of my arguing that night. The rest of the week, if someone complimented me, I'd smile and say "thank you". And just accept it - it's not like I was soliciting compliments.

I get frustrated, at times, when I'm trying to encourage someone with the truth and they just won't accept it. In working with student worship bands over the years, I ran into this a lot. Sometimes the most talented people don't see their gifts.

Man, that's frustrating. Because they hold back what they have been given, and they don't give it all back to God in abandon. And that's not modesty, it's pride that causes that.

I think "well meaning people lie to be nice" sometimes when they are cornered. It's the classic "How does my hair look?" or "does this dress make me look fat?" fishing that puts people in that position.

But I think - in general - when someone that you know and trust in all other cases to be honest offers, out of the blue, encouragement or a compliment on how you look or act or on your talent, you should not assume that they have suddenly become a liar.

I struggle with compliments. Many people do. But - for instance - regarding the compliments that were given to me that I mentioned in the post. I know for a fact that I don't "look young". I'm 20 pounds overweight, my eyes have bags under them, and, in the hair category, let's just say that it won't be long before I'll be praising God for eyebrows. But both of those compliments came out of their assumption that I was younger than I am. One was a friend asking me to participate in a focus group (he does those kinds of things). It was for a new barbeque restaurant. As we were talking he said - "Oh, also, you're 39 or younger, right?" - When I told him I was 43, he said "No way! You look so young".

Now, either the whole thing was an elaborate lie to force a false compliment on me, or he genuinely doesn't think I look 43 (and, to be fair, he hasn't seen me in about a year).

As hard as I find it to believe, I'm going to have to go with all the internal and external evidence that the compliment was real.

Sorry for the long comment! But you've hit on a topic I have a lot of interest in. :-)

Thoughts?

The entire post parallels my own low-forties experience exactly, except that I don't even have a cool face ... so I guess I'm really in trouble. And when I look back at the pictures of myself from my college years, it's amazing to me that I had such a hard time getting a date. Were those girls completely blind?!?!? Or maybe they could tell what a dweeb I was underneath it all. --sigh--

De, wha? You're 43? When did that happen?

;-)

De- wow. what you say sounds like truth. heaven knows my biggest struggle is with pride...

Bill, your thoughts are exactly my own with regard to what I see in the mirror and in pictures. I also think of myself as feeling younger than my age. I also think that the way we see ourselves is not at all how others see us, so I try to accept compliments as they come graciously even if I think that person is nutso in their kind opinion.

I'm the ripe old age of 27, though most of the time I feel about 15 (like most people, I guess).

I don't know if it's pride, as such, that makes us so bad at accepting compliments. I think sometimes, although it sounds like psychobabble, it really is an irrationally low self-esteem. I reckon that's one of the devil's cleverest weapons, actually: it feels like humility and the avoidance of pride, but really it cripples us and makes us much less able to serve God. If one were feeling harsh, one could even call it a lack of trust in God to be strong enough to keep us from falling if we allowed ourselves to shine as much as we really could do.

Does anyone want to dig up that Screwtape quote about designing a cathedral and knowing it's good and taking the same pleasure in it as if someone else had done it? My copy's in Devon and I'm in Switzerland, so I'm no use to man nor beast on that front.

But I think - in general - when someone that you know and trust in all other cases to be honest offers, out of the blue, encouragement or a compliment on how you look or act or on your talent, you should not assume that they have suddenly become a liar.

I think that's one of the cooler, funnier and truer rules of thumb ever written in English. =o)

The true end of humility [is] ... self-forgetfulness. ...[But] thousands of humans have been brought to think that humility means pretty women trying to believe they are ugly and clever men trying to believe they are fools....The Enemy wants to bring a man to a state of mind in which he could design the best cathedral in the world, and know it to be the best, and rejoice in the fact, without being any more (or less) or otherwise glad at having done it than he would be if it had been done by another.

"De, wha? You're 43? When did that happen? "

heh, hard to believe, isn't it? :-)

"I think sometimes, although it sounds like psychobabble, it really is an irrationally low self-esteem."

My opinion is that low self-esteem is also a form of pride.

True humility, as that Lewis quote so ably states, is so different from all our false modesties, denials of compliments, etc.

I wrote, over a year ago I'd guess, on this topic on my other blog - for the readin' if anyone's interested: The Clothing of Humility

(but it's bass - heh - who can hear 'em? :-)

Dude...my first rule of playing the bass is "if they can't feel it, you aren't loud enough..." :-)

Thus, I quit playing my little Redhead and went with the 450 Behringer. (I am bassist, hear me roar)

I agree with de about low self-esteem being a form of pride. we're supposed to esteem others higher than ourselves. but that doesn't mean allowing our thoughts to be consumed with bad thoughts of ourselves - I'm still only thinking of myself, even if negatively.
it is a form of pride to say "I'm only here but I should be there" it indicates a higher expectation as if it were understandable that others were only "here" but I, being so much better, should be "there" and am not. or if others are "there", to think that I'm at least as good as they are so I should be "there" too.

This is a weird coincidence. Just last night, I discussed this very topic with my husband. I told him that when I looked in the mirror I could see the extra weight that approaching menopause is producing but that I still thought I looked pretty good. But when I see videotape of myself I think I look HUGE--and old! I've been told I look much younger than my age and that helps some. But I've decided to stick to the mirror and stay away from photographs and video--they add 10 to 20 lbs to your appearance, don't ya know? At least that's my story---and I'm sticking to it! ;-)

I'm a photographer, so I show people a lot of pictures. Without doubt, without fail and without question, the first thing people always look at in a photograph is themself. I do it. You do it. Everyone does it.

With that said, when I look in the mirror, I think, "There's a dude who can stand to lose 70 pounds". Actually, it's more like 50-something pounds now. Heh.

There's a dude who can stand to lose 70 pounds

I think most people feel that way about themselves, give or take a few pounds - Americans at least.

I'm similar to Blest - one minute I think I'm looking great, the next all I can see is the roll around the middle and every other flaw that keeps me from looking "perfect". It's the paradox of pride, one minute up and the next minute down.

Today I did a really stupid thing. I opened my mouth and let loose before thinking and now I feel horrible. And I've really hurt my husband and I don't know what to do. Guys, I could use advice. My husband was getting dressed and came looking for his shirt. He's mid-forties now, so has gained some weight in the last year or so. I blurted out, "Oh! You're starting to get boobs!". AGH. WHY? That was sooo mean and totally unecessary! I apologized within a minute, but now the damage is done. He's moping around and telling me I should leave him alone. He's really upset. It's not that I'm perfect, in looks or any other way. I know if he wanted to hurt me I have plenty of "fodder" areas to pick on. What should I do now? Forget about it? Try to pretend it didn't happen? (I've apologized, but it's not "getting through") I could use a bit of advice.

I'm no guy. But I would totally leave him alone right now. That and pray a lot. You've apologized - and if he knows you at all, he knows you are mortified at your mistake - yes?

Anything else you say right now is only making more of a deal out of it.

That said - I'm curious to see what advice the menfolk have...

"I could use a bit of advice."

Ok, you asked. I'm going to give some advice that I hope doesn't offend anyone. But if you're husband is like most men this will go 1,000 miles beyond an apology, and he'll feel better about himself even than he did before the poorly chosen comment.

Be nice and loving to him all day. Once he gets in bed, go into the bathroom. Come out smelling nice and wearing next to nothing and then love him like you haven't in years. Pull out all the stops.

Most men need that now and then. You won't believe what that will do for his self-esteem. He needs to know. more than anyone else, that you find him desirable. He needs to know you respect him. That he's a man, and that he's your man. Words alone won't convey that.

OK, that's it for my advice. Take it for what it's worth, but don't dismiss it. You're a woman and don't inherently know how men think.

Good luck! :-)

well when i see myself in the mirror.. for the most part i like it. its who i am and i think my face shows my personality.

lets just say i was not made to be behind the camera. but hopefully when my braces are off my smile will be brighter (and more gorgeous)

how i picture my self in my head is a really different beauty. its a flawless bare skinned me. if that makes sense?

blest is right that you should not mention it again. And De is right. If you follow his suggestion, hubby will likely not only forgive, but forget as well. If he doesn't forgive and forget, he will probably some day, maybe not even soon, "get even." It's immature and wrong, but there's a good chance it will happen. If it does, you need to realize that he doesn't really mean whatever he says, so don't take it to heart. If you don't retaliate again, he'll consider things "square" and the matter will be resolved.

But De's suggestion is better.

Bethany, are you kidding me? You are one of the most photogenic people I know, and beautiful. You are crazy!


Good post, dad. And you know all of my input, so I won't even say it =)

Yeah, what De said.

Be nice and loving to him all day. Once he gets in bed, go into the bathroom. Come out smelling nice and wearing next to nothing and then love him like you haven't in years. Pull out all the stops.

Bingo. De, you said what I was thinking and wouldn't have been brave enough to post. Or I'd post it and then apologize for posting it. :-P

On the mirror: I always have a lot more hair in the mirror than in photos. I can't figure that out. :D Oh, and in my head I'm still 16 (really 39) and not in the 'young at heart' way. More in the insecure and still a kid with no authority kind of way.

And, like bird, the guy in the mirror could loose about 30 pounds.

I also was too embarassed to say what De said...but I knew t'was truth! Go De! Way to preach it!

Well, I got the verbal "I've forgiven you" with the "cold shoulder/leave me alone/I'm pretending I can't see you" body language following. Which bugs me, because obviously he hasn't forgiven me if that's how he's acting.

*Sigh* I'd give the suggestion a shot, but there's a big wall up right now. I'll give it a few days I guess. A good lesson on how 5 seconds of stupidity can really hurt someone. And how forgiving can't be only something you say. We're both stubborn.

I'm one of those who sees something different in the mirror than reality. I used to joke that I had some disorder that would be the opposite of anorexia. Anorexics will see themselves as fat in the mirror, no matter how emaciated they become. When I look in the mirror, I see myself as much thinner than I am.

It took some photographs to really wake me up. Particularly, the pics that were taken when my 4th daughter was born.

I have some before and after photos posted here. Unfortunately, I've put a few of the pounds back on that I had lost, but I'm still 25 pounds lighter than I was in the before pics.