"In spiritual matters there really is no 'Third World.' It's all Third World."
- Dallas Willard
Friday, January 30, 2009
TV Spot #2 - "Life"
(Me standing in front of a giant picture of an 8 week old unborn child, or maybe in front of a woman receiving a sonogram where the 8 week old baby is clearly visible on the screen)
"The creature you see behind me came into existence 8 weeks ago. It has two human parents, and human DNA. It receives nourishment from the mother who gave it life and it is growing. It has a head, arms, legs and fingers.
By the eighth week of pregnancy, every organ is present and in place. The embryonic period is now over. Ninety percent of the structures found in an adult human being can be found in this tiny embryo (now called a fetus) which is only about an inch and a half long. The brain, at this point, accounts for almost half of the body's total weight, and 75% of 8-week fetuses demonstrate right-hand dominance. Intermittent breathing motions (though there is no air present in the uterus) occur, and male testes are releasing testosterone. As the skin thickens, it loses much of its transparency.
"Measuring one-and-one-fourth inches from crown to rump and weighing about one-thirtieth of an ounce, the (56-day-old) embryo is now all but fully formed. All body systems are in place and elaborated. Architecturally, the organism is more or less whole... Though the energy output is about one-fifth that of an adult, the heart is functionally complete... A great passage has been made."
Alexander Tsiaras, From Conception to Birth. New York, NY: Doubleday, 2002. p. 183.
88% of all abortions happen during the first trimester, prior to the at 13th week (AGI/CDC).
I believe that all human beings have the right to live.
My name is Philip Schroeder and I don't want anyone to choose to end your life no matter how old you are, how big you are, or how difficult you may be to care for so you can bet I approve this message."
Update: I apologize that some of the "facts" I originally included about fetal development were biased, and some actually turned out to be false. I did not intend to mislead, nevertheless I offer no excuses. I'm sorry.
So this is what it feels like to be a politician... :)
I replaced the misleading paragraph with a direct quote from here. If anyone has any suggestions about how to reword it to make it less sterile, yet still factually accurate, I'm open.
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Comments on "If I Ran For Office... Part 2":
2. jez
- 01/30/2009 12:17 pm CST
Just to be a stickler for accuracy (as you would have to be with real campaign messages I guess/hope), but at 8 weeks you don't have a fingerprint nor are the structures necessary for pain sensation yet in place. Also, in order for "organs are functioning" to be accurate, you have to interprate "functioning" so loosely that the statement looses most of its power.
3. Shrode
- 01/30/2009 12:25 pm CST
Jez,
Thanks dude! (Long time no see. :)
I agree that I should be a stickler for accuracy, though that's never limited political campaign ads before...
Anyway, I got those facts from John Piper. I don't think the fingerprint is complete yet, but you do have one, because the amniotic fluid will continue working on those fingers for a while longer...
As for the pain sensation... I think there is some reaction... but I may have to go look that up again...
As for "organs functioning", you may be right that they aren't operating fully, but any function at all shows that this is a living creature...in the early stages of development sure, but a living creature nonetheless.
Does anyone out there know where I can find specific, scientific facts on this subject?
5. Bill
- 01/30/2009 12:52 pm CST
There is debate about pain-sensation in fetuses, of course. We can't ask them "does this hurt?" while ripping them apart, and they can't tell us if it did because they are dead. Though there are reactions to stimuli, it may be that what the fetus experiences in the first two trimesters may not be what we would call "pain" (I'm not a medical doctor, by the way - but this is what I've gleaned from the article).
It's irrelevant, however, to whether abortion is a moral act.
I agree with Jez that we have to be accurate. I don't think that anything Phil said was inaccurate, although, of course, there are interpretations of words like "functioning", "reacts to pain", etc. Abortion is still the ending of a human life.
Phil, I'd vote for you in a heartbeat.
6. Les
- 01/30/2009 1:06 pm CST
In the actual argument none of that matters. As soon as there is a unique strand of DNA, there is an individual of a distinct kind. Any interruption of the development of that individual is deprivation of its basic right to life, and its pursuit of happiness.
Have you seen the recent pro-life video (called, "Imagine Spot 1") put out by the Catholic church? It's kind of devastating to the self-contradictory liberal mind-set. Apparently it's been banned from running as a spot during the super bowl. We must be careful not to offend the sensitivities of the party crowds with some offbeat illusion of priorities. Wouldn't real life just put a damper on the day?
7. Mandi
- 01/30/2009 8:39 pm CST
For a great site go to: http://www.abort73.com/index.php?/abortion/prenatal_development/
This has lots of info on development
8. Jeff Terrell
- 01/31/2009 1:05 pm CST
Almost every abortion in this country ends the life of persons as developed or more developed than this one you see here.
Actually, I don't think that's true. Not "almost every", anyway. The Guttmacher Institute says that "Eighty-nine percent of abortions [in the US] occur in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, 2004."
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html
And for what it's worth, keep preaching that message. Just don't give 'em any easy way to attack your arguments. :-)
9. Milly
- 01/31/2009 9:14 pm CST
I don't want anyone to choose to end your life no matter how old you are, how big you are, or how difficult you may be to care for so you can bet I approve this message.
Ummm does that mean not pulling the plug when brain dead?
Cause you almost had me even when you were making false statements after all politicians lie.
10. Shrode
- 02/01/2009 7:18 am CST
Yipes. Sorry Milly. No, I don't think it includes removing artificial life support when the brain is actually dead.
By the way, I hate the phrase "pull the plug". Not that I'm PC or anything, but especially for families going through it, I think it's kind of a harsh expression. (If I recall correctly, Milly, you went through something like this.) I never would have used the phrase "pull the plug" if I were your pastor or medical professional.
The struggles and hard decisions at the end of life is something I am quite intimate with. I deal with these issues almost constantly. Enough to know that sometimes there just are no easy answers.
And I will go back and correct the false statements. OK?
11. Shrode
- 02/01/2009 7:40 am CST
In trying to get my facts right, I learned something. It's apparently harder to get an abortion in the UK than it is here. I didn't know that.
The law says..
In the UK, two doctors must testify to one of the following before you can have an abortion:
That continuing the pregnancy involves a greater risk to the woman's life than abortion.
Or That continuing the pregnancy involves a greater risk of injury to her physical or mental health than an abortion.
Or That continuing the pregnancy involves a greater risk of injury to the physical or mental health of existing children in the family than an abortion would do.
Or That there's a substantial risk that the child will be born seriously deformed.
Source
12. Bill
- 02/01/2009 8:00 am CST
I heard it was harder to get one in France too than here. Yay America ;-(
[I removed the next part of my comment because it was ungracious toward the people beating up on you. I'm becoming a mean old guy . . .]
13. Milly
- 02/01/2009 9:12 am CST
I'm becoming a mean old guy . . .
Bill, were you shaking your fists in the air? ;-}
Shrode,
I hate the pull the plug expression also. A lot of the time it's a feeding tube or something like that. Yes my family lost a loved one to a long and hard illness. I understood at the end why people would chose to take the matter in their own hands. The problem that we had was that she had remarried and chosen unwisely. He hurt her, he worked hard to make her go faster. Her family stepped in to keep her safe. These kind of illnesses take your dignity away so its very difficult to watch and live through. My aunt was sharp she would have been able to go toe to toe with the best of them around here and this beast took her body. That’s the hard part this one left her mind in tact so that she knew exactly what was happening.
I think I harshed the mellow of the parody of running for office. I wasn’t slamming you at all so calm down old man Bill. You sure would have a lot of issues to think about. My brother has always wanted to run for office he’s a lobbyist and a speech writer, I sure could have some fun in the White House. I'd invite ya'll.
14. jez
- 02/03/2009 8:58 am CST
Hi,
I don't mean to be beating up on Shrode, but I suppose that is what I'm doing... I only ever seem to comment here when I have something to disagree with! If you were telling me off at all, Bill, I'm sure I deserved it and could only profit from what you have to say. I'm certain that there is a whole lot you could teach me about being a gentleman!
Truth is, although I disagree with some of the politics, I really like the style of these ads. I think they'd play exceptionally well against the overly slick style of American campaign messages. It's the nature of short video slots that they (over-)simplify the technical aspects of whatever subject they address, be it economics, biology or whatever, and pedants like me need to get over it. :) I do think it's a pity that there seems to be almost no place at all for detailed, accurate consideration of issues such as abortion, and one's stance is routinely reduced to membership of one of two camps and that membership is taken as part of the politician's intrinsic identity and may be opened to neither question, persuasion nor compromise.
It's all a lot of noise which doesn't seem to add up to anything much by way of action -- the rate of reported abortions in America has not fallen appreciably since 1998, despite the change in administration in 2001. This divisive approach to the argument is not yielding results, in my opinion.
I endorse the safe, legal and rare rhetoric, and I'm as sincere about the rare part as I am about the legal part. (They both come second to the safe part.) For my money, even here in the UK abortion is far too routine and is too often recommended by default in counselling. (I'm working on friends' reports here, I don't have much insider knowledge.)
15. Bill
- 02/03/2009 11:45 am CST
Jez, you are always welcome here and your opinion is valued.
You're consider a friend, mate.
I am, of course, still waiting for the first time you agree with me :-)
16. Sha
- 02/03/2009 3:50 pm CST
It's all a lot of noise which doesn't seem to add up to anything much by way of action -- the rate of reported abortions in America has not fallen appreciably since 1998, despite the change in administration in 2001. This divisive approach to the argument is not yielding results, in my opinion.
Jez, I was just wanting to make one correction to your last post. According to the official CDC governmental statistics, the abortion rate has been dropping since 1996. It fell significantly from '96 to 98/99 and has been steadily decreasing ever since.
Here is the link.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5713a1.htm?s_cid=ss5713a1_e
The last figure they give is from 2005, when there were 820,151 reported abortions.
Personally, I am a pro-life and believe that even that current figure is way too high! However, I just wanted to make sure the facts were clear. Hopefully, this trend will continue.
18. Mandi
- 02/03/2009 10:18 pm CST
I personally think that the number of abortions is greatly underreported. Clinics are not required to report and when they do report it goes to the Guttmacher Institute which is really just another name for "Planned Parenthood" - The history of both are intricately intertwined and they basically serve one another. I think it would be great if there was mandatory reporting on abortion clinics but that won't happen anytime soon. As it is now a vet's office is more regulated than an abortion clinic.
19. jez
- 02/04/2009 8:00 am CST
Agree with Sha and Mandi. These figures are of course just the reported totals, and reporting is optional. If I were doing a serious analysis, I wouldn't be happy to rely on these numbers, I'd try and dig up my own...
To put the figures into context, the total reported rate has fallen less than 10% since 1998, and less than 4% since 2001 (up to 2005). That's 4 years of Bush and 3 years of Clinton, adding up to roughly the same proportional drop. If anything, the trend was slightly better under Clinton's second term than Bush's first, but essentially the difference under the two regimes was zero. I wonder how many votes Bush gained as a result of his prolife rhetoric? Would he have won all of those if we'd known he would make virtually no difference to the numbers?
Here's a useful stats table from wikipedia.
By the way, I'd be really interested to know what caused that large drop in 1998. Any ideas?
I don't think that kind of fall is appreciable, although it is a steady trend, gradually chipping away at the (very large) numbers. (Watch me squirm, now I know how it feels to be a politician!) -- but in my opinion it certainly doesn't justify the volume of hot air the politicians have spent on pandering to pro-life votes. For many, abortion is the definitive political issue, yet the actual difference the "passionately prolife" politicians are prepared to or are able to make appears to be almost negligable.
Let's hope that the rate falls even faster under Obama.
20. Bill
- 02/04/2009 10:17 am CST
Let's hope that the rate falls even faster under Obama.
Yes.
In Bush's defense, he took some very important stands for life in the area of embryonic stem cell research, which delayed that long enough for researchers to discover that adult stem cells may hold even more promise (without harvesting embryos). He also stood strong against the barbaric practice of partial birth abortion.
I expect Obama to reverse those good trends, unfortunately.
I wonder how many votes Bush gained as a result of his prolife rhetoric? Would he have won all of those if we'd known he would make virtually no difference to the numbers?
In other words, I don't think Bush's pro-life stance is rhetoric. And, yes, he would have won my vote anyway. He did what he could. He also nominated two (did I get that right?) Supreme Court justices that kept the balance of power on the SC from shifting over to the left/judicial activism side, which it would have had either Gore or Kerry been in power.
And that's the point and the problem: in 1973, the abortion issue was taken out of the hands of the executive and legislative branches at all levels of government and put in the hands of the courts.
Bush did what he could. I don't feel "cheated" or anything like that. It's not like the President alone can repeal Roe v. Wade, and that's something this country isn't ready for.
I still think it's vitally important that the President value life. I do think that the number of people who see no moral issue with abortion has gone down - most people see the conflict, and realize that it's more than a blob of cells being killed in an abortion procedure.
Although, as Jared's mentioned, most people think abortion is bad, but not that bad.
21. Mandi
- 02/04/2009 10:50 am CST
Let's do the math on this. In 2005 there were reportedly 1.21 million abortions. For that same year there were 1787 abortion providers. This means that each provider is doing 677 abortions per year. Statistically this is less than 2 per day per doctor. Assuming a $300 fee this means each doctor is only making about $203,000 (to cover his fee, nurses, equipment, building, etc.) I'm sorry but these numbers do not add up. Now even if a clinic was only open 3 days you mean to tell me they are only doing on average 5 abortions per day?? That just does not add up with accounts I've heard. Abortion clinics are notorious for having waiting rooms with 10-15 women waiting at any given time. The clinics in Ohio take about 1 to 1 1/2 weeks just to get an appointment because they are booked solid.
Here is an interesting bit of info from abort73.com
National abortion statistics in the U.S. are only available from two sources, privately from The Alan Guttmacher Institute (AGI) and federally from the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). Since Alaska, California and New Hampshire do not provide abortion data to the federal government, and since California accounts for more abortions than any other state in the U.S, the CDC numbers are not complete. AGI, on the other hand, is the research arm of Planned Parenthood, the world's largest abortion provider. While their data is helpful, they certainly have a position and agenda in regard to abortion.
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Ahh, but it is neither plant, chimpanzee, nor endangered insect and so must take its place at the end of the rights queue.