"The first and most important thing to say about John Dominic Crossan's work is that it is bad history."

- D.A. Carson
J.C. Hallman: The Definitive Interview

During Christmas of 2003, I received an intriguing gift: a newly released book titled The Chess Artist: Genius, Obsession, and the World’s Oldest Game by J.C. Hallman.

The book -- a travelogue about Hallman’s chess-centric adventures with friend and chess master, Glenn Umstead -- exhilarated me. As a self-described chess fiend, I devoured the tome in five days. For chess enthusiasts, The Chess Artist is not unlike crack cocaine for narcotics enthusiasts: completely addictive.

Hallman’s recollections of traveling to Kalmykia, Russia, headquarters of the World Chess Federation, and interviewing the eccentric (and, some would say, felonious) president, Kirsan Ilyumzhinov, are at the heart of The Chess Artist. Ilyumzhinov’s idea of chess as religion piqued Hallman’s interest, and the book elaborates on that idea through the lens of Hallman and Umstead’s intrepid -- and often hilarious -- escapades.

In 2006, Hallman published his second book, The Devil Is a Gentleman. While The Chess Artist takes an in-depth look at people who play chess religiously, The Devil Is a Gentleman examines those who practice certain fringe religions ... religiously.

After his second published volume, Hallman has established himself as an eminent chess historian and religious commentator. Since chess and religion (especially of the Christian flavor) are two popular topics around Thinklings, I thought I’d seek out Hallman for an interview. Thankfully, Hallman graciously consented:

You're a seasoned author now with two published books to your credit, and, undoubtedly, a growing fan base. (I even saw a guy once on the Internet Chess Club with a unique handle, something like: JCHallmanFan.) How has your life changed since the release of your first book, The Chess Artist, in 2003?

Hallman: Funny that you should mention JCHallmanFan. Glenn, the central character from The Chess Artist, brought that guy to my attention a while back. I dropped JCHallmanFan a note of thanks, and we had a nice correspondence. Nice guy.

As I describe in the book, Glenn and I were both working as casino dealers when the events of The Chess Artist began. There was something wildly speculative to the idea that we would drop everything to play chess in prison, or rush off to Russia and interview the president of a tiny empire. I think the best kind of writing comes from uncertainty like that--where you just throw yourself in without knowing whether it will work at all. Since that book, things have gotten a little easier for me (I've moved into teaching instead of dealing, for example), but I still try to find ways to get back to that original energy.

Do you still keep in touch with Glenn? What's your relationship with him like these days?

Hallman: Glenn and I are still friends, and our relationship is still just as cantankerous and fun as I hope it came across in the book. We don't live in the same town anymore, but sometimes he sends me his results from tournaments. This August, Chess Life is going to print an excerpt from the book that wound up on the cutting room floor--Glenn describing a strong game he played against a grandmaster. It made a nice scene, but I had to cut it. Glenn is still a casino dealer.

When you and Glenn traveled to Chess City in Kalmykia, you were investigating Kirsan Ilyumzhinov's notion of chess as a religion. In hindsight, what was the final analysis of that inquiry? Has Ilyumzhinov succeeded in his attempt to make Chess City into a Mecca of sorts?

Hallman: I don't think Ilyumzhinov succeeded--at least not in the sense of making Chess City a Mecca. It's a hub of chess activity, sure, but that was achieved more by fiat or decree than by collective will. So the vision has fallen a little short--and I'm sure we're all glad about that. Nevertheless chess is (and was long before Ilyumzhinov stumbled along) a discipline that for some takes on a kind of religious dimension. Not in that they believe in chess gods or any such nonsense, but in that for some it is a somewhat ritualized activity that offers shape, structure, and meaning.

Both of your published books -- The Chess Artist and The Devil Is a Gentleman -- have a religious theme to them. What's your concept of religion in the world? Did you grow up in a religious environment?

Hallman: I started out Catholic but rejected it very early. Like when I was ten. As to my conception of religion in the world, it's something I articulated more in the second book, in which I explored a variety of religious movements, taking along with me the thinking of William James as a kind of guiding spirit. What I came up with, in terms of the big picture of religion, is that consciousness, human consciousness, comes with a significant attendant cosmological curiosity. That is, when we become conscious as people, we begin to get curious about big questions: why am I here, what is the nature of the universe, and so forth. All this is another way of saying that the side effect of sentience is a god-shaped hole in our psyches. Now that's Sartre (I think), but what James might add to it is that failing to satisfy that curiosity can result in a kind of profound sadness, even the tendency to reject life. So people are hardwired to find some set of answers that satisfies that cosmological curiosity. Fills the god-shaped hole. Very often that set of answers is God, but it can just as well be science's version of creation, the Big Bang (which some string theorists describe as quaint, it's so out of date), or organized Atheism, or Christianity, or Satanism, or chess, or literature, or whatever else satisfies you in terms of your personal quandary about the basic questions and mysteries of life. This is basically what we mean when we turn religion into an adverb and note that someone pursues whatever they pursue "religiously."

Since the very core of our conscious existence has a "God shaped hole," people will fill that hole with some sort of ritualistic belief system, correct? In that way, even atheism becomes a faith?

Hallman: Well, faith and religion are different things, both pretty tricky to define. And "ritualistic" is tricky, too: some religions (like Protestant Christianity) at least endeavor to shy away from ritual, and even secular government has ritual in the form of ceremonies, graduations, inaugurations, and whatnot. For my money, the simplest definition is that consciousness comes with curiosity, and however you address that curiosity, even if to reject it, is your religion. It's not terribly concrete, I admit, but at least it's inclusive in ways that many definitions are not.

Does humanity need religion then (or religious experience) to scratch the curiosity-itch?

Hallman: It's not so much that humanity "needs" religion, as that having a religion can't be avoided, as I'm defining it. This is Jamesian in that if you accept that definition you're well on your way to celebrating the world's basic variety. And that's good. Religions, now, whatever they are, suffer from exclusivity--believe this, they say, or you're damned (Christians) or you're ignorant (Atheists). But if you define religion as the satisfaction of basic curiosities, then compassion for a religion you don't share becomes possible. Pluralism can be celebrated rather than just tolerated. Incidentally, I think this explains why it's possible to find sympathy for both Glenn, the chess player in The Chess Artist, and for many of the people in The Devil is a Gentleman. The link between the two books is, I hope, something fundamentally human.

What is it about chess, above all other games, that elevates it to the status of a religion among its devotees? Does Glenn concede that chess is a religion for him?

Hallman: I think Glenn would allow that chess, for him, is a discipline, and perhaps even has something monastic to it, but I think he'd shy away from doing what Ilyumzhinov did, and labeling it a religion. The only thing that truly distinguishes chess from other games (except checkers) is that it has no luck component. But this might answer the question. Because it has no luck, a game of chess is a naked expression of self. You project yourself into a game, and thus the stakes on the outcome are very high. So chess becomes unforgivingly introspective in a way other games are not, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if this alone helped explain why the attraction to it can sometimes slip into the fanatical.

Interestingly, the chess/religion connection has a new addition in literature: Michael Chabon's recently-released novel The Yiddish Policemen's Union. I'm about halfway through it, so I can't spoil it for anyone, but it's already the best chess-related murder mystery I've come across. The victim, we learn in the first line of the book, goes by "Emanuel Lasker" (a name of a former chess world champion), and, we soon learn, was both a chess and spiritual prodigy. Great book.

In The Chess Artist you mentioned that, initially, you were not drawn to chess; the notion of a game that had no element of chance didn't sit too well with you.

Hallman: Yes, it didn't seem properly "play-like" to me at first, which was a notion that Johan Huizinga's seminal study of play in culture, Homo Ludens, disabused me of pretty quickly. It turns out play is serious business, and that many games can trace their roots to religious rites or rituals. It's something I considered again in The Devil is a Gentleman, in looking at the history of wrestling--which, incidentally, is sometimes called "body chess."

Tell me about The Devil Is a Gentleman. What's the central theme? How did you come up with the title?

Hallman: It's kind of a revisitation of the basic thinking of William James in The Varieties of Religious Experience. I go to a bunch of modern religious movements (Druids, Satanists, Atheists, Christian Wrestlers, etc.), experience whatever rites or observances they might have, and attempt to divine from them the lingering effects of James's thought today. It includes a good deal of biographical material on James. The title is simply one of the catchier chapter titles, a quote that has been attributed to Shelley, Shakespeare, G.K. Chesterton, and others. James used it once, and I latched onto that.

How did you approach that with your subjects? Did you tell them you were a writer from the start?

Hallman: In most cases, I simply called them up, told them I was a writer, and asked if I could visit. Generally, this caused no problems at all. Indeed, some saw me as an opportunity (in a couple cases, divinely-sent) to spread their word. There was one exception: Scientology. Scientology has a long history of antagonism toward those who write about them, so I doubted they would be cooperative. My solution was to just join. I went out to L.A., took an introductory class, dabbled in their therapy (auditing), and attended the L. Ron Hubbard Birthday Celebration.

Which of the groups surprised you the most, and why?

Hallman: The UFO group I visited surprised me a little ... they all just seemed like normal people. I guess I expected them to be weirder. Of course all religions look pretty weird if the beliefs are antithetical to your own, but I didn't quite anticipate that then. I was surprised a bit by Wicca, too. It was less literal, and more intellectual, than I thought it would be when I started.

So what are you working on next?

Hallman: I might be trying to collect some stories, some old, some new. We'll see. But I did recently sell another book, this about modern utopian movements. This is another theme I come back to a lot. Ilyumzhinov's "Chess City" is certainly a failed utopia of a kind. But this time around, I'm making sure the movements are strictly secular. Who knows what it means, but it's the secular movements that seem to have the hardest time getting off the ground.

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Comments on "J.C. Hallman: The Definitive Interview":
1. Bird - 06/23/2007 12:18 am CDT

Ok, ok, so I know it's not a "definitive" interview. ;-)

2. Brian in Fresno - 06/23/2007 9:44 am CDT

That's pretty cool, Bird! Interesting stuff. I just wish it didn't list any books that I want to buy. My reading pile is something that in reality I will never make it through before I die. ;-)

3. dbd - 06/23/2007 12:33 pm CDT

"Since the very core of our conscious existence has a "God shaped hole," people will fill that hole with some sort of ritualistic belief system, correct?"

Does the shape of the hole in my soul get to define the shape of God? Wouldn't that make God kind of...sin-shaped?

4. Brian in Fresno - 06/23/2007 3:40 pm CDT

It seems to me, dbd, that the hole is God shaped, as opposed the the God being hole shaped.

Please understand that I do not endorse the idea of there being a hole in the first place. It just seems to me that you are turning things around.

5. Bird - 06/23/2007 10:03 pm CDT

dbd,

I have no idea what you're talking about. It was a hypothetical question anyway.

6. Shrode - 06/24/2007 6:02 am CDT

My favorite part:
Scientology has a long history of antagonism toward those who write about them, so I doubted they would be cooperative. My solution was to just join. I went out to L.A., took an introductory class, dabbled in their therapy (auditing), and attended the L. Ron Hubbard Birthday Celebration.

That's just hilarious. I wonder how come more people investigating Scientology haven't thought of that?

And Bird, who did you tell him you were interviewing him for? The Thinklings Blog?

Wow! I'm guessing, he'll probably be reading this then? (Hello, Mr. Hallman!)

7. Bird - 06/24/2007 8:40 am CDT

Shrode, yeah, I thought that was funny too. ;-)

And, yes, I told him I was interviewing for the blog. And I'm sure he's reading the comments too; he told me he would. He's a good guy.

8. codepoke - 06/24/2007 12:42 pm CDT

Bird,

I read this too, a couple years ago, and loved it all. :-) I loved the interplay, the chess, the humanizing of the whole freakish world of chess, and the backdrop of a murder inquiry. It was just a blast!

>> Because it has no luck, a game of chess is a naked expression of self. You project yourself into a game, and thus the stakes on the outcome are very high. So chess becomes unforgivingly introspective in a way other games are not, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if this alone helped explain why the attraction to it can sometimes slip into the fanatical. <<

True! True! True!

That's also why I'm a tennis fanatic. I'm irresistibly drawn to play that doesn't let me hide. My third interest - bike riding.

And I can so testify to the eternal questions that come up in all three of those activities. You overlook a hidden attack. Is it not because you are too focused on your own agenda? You end up trapped behind your own pawns. Is it not because you are timid? You blunder. Is it not because you are not disciplined?

And I don't know about you, but when I succeed, the feeling is not, "Was it not because I'm brilliant?" but "Phew! I got away with one!"

Some of us they just should not allow near a chess board. ;-)

Thanks for the interview. Great, bold idea and wonderfully executed.

9. Bird - 06/24/2007 12:44 pm CDT

Thanks, poke. Why don't you come over and play some with us at Thinklings Chess? Let me know if you're interested. (Heck, for all I know, you're already in there! Some of us use our real names in there, some use monikers.)

10. J.C. Hallman - 06/26/2007 10:16 am CDT

Hi all,

Thanks to Bird, and to all of you for your comments...

dbd, I cited the "god-shaped hole" thing just so it didn't seem like I was trying to sound entirely original, when of course thinking is always built on other thinking. That said, one's hole would be "sin-shaped" only if one were inclined to believe that sin was possible. Presumably an atheist would disagree, no?

Shrode, thanks for kind words...for what it's worth, in addition to not telling the Scientologists what I was up to, I deceived them a little: when they asked who I was, I gave them William James's biography instead of my own. Their reaction to that, I hope, was funny and revealing.

Codepoke, thanks for taking a look at Chess Artist. Glad it resonated. Be sure to not let tennis or biking take too strong a hold...

Thanks again to all...

J.C. Hallman

11. Slumberjack - 07/09/2007 6:05 am CDT

What a wonderful job Bird. Thanks for not letting this slip by me. I can't believe there were only ten comments posted in response.

J.C. Hallman is now on my must read list. He seems to draw out the practical aspects of life in general as relates to religion.

True, the game of chess is a no luck endeavor. Checkers as well, perhaps, but it is in Hallmans insight into human nature that truely speaks to me as a common man.

Yet, games in themselves are addictive in many ways. As with many religions. Interesting as well, that Hallman was a casnio dealer. On line poker is a huge business right now.

I have much more to say on this subject, and wether or not it is in a coma, I hope there will be those on the Thinklings blog that will be open to discussion.

More to come. Thanks dude!

12. Bird - 07/09/2007 8:17 am CDT

Thanks, slumber. You really should get the book asap. It's an addicting read.

Comments are closed