Pride is so insidious, I've even seen people get proud about how much humbler they are than everybody else. I used to hear alot about pride. Not so much anymore. Is that just me and my crowd, or have evangelicals stopped preaching about it?

Bob - I think all the proud people headed over to Prosperity Gospel Land.....after all, God owes them.

Good point, but while the joke is funny, I have to point out (this being the intellectual nexus of the universe), that it's a story and never really happened so it's not a valid illustration. There are plenty of equally funny yet real stories out there to make the point.

nhe,

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking too. --sigh--

John M., are you serious!?!?!?!?!

a story that never happened is not valid? Do you think Jesus' parables really happened? ;-)

Do you have any examples of equally funny yet real stories that make that point?

The problem with "true stories" is that I am a real stickler for truth telling. Just because a story claims to be true, doesn't mean it is. I cross check my illustrations before I tell them as true. I did find one story about Muhammed Ali bragging before a fight, that he later lost. But because I could not find more than one source, I chose not to use it, and went with a fictional one instead.

I would rather use a fictional story as an illustration, than portray one as true that isn't.

But you are right in this sense: sometimes true stories are better in that they carry more "weight". But not always. And I don't think fictional illustrations are any less "valid" than non-fiction.

Shrode - count me among those who would like to hear an "equally funny, true story that makes the same point".........I've never heard of jokes not being valid for illustration purposes.......

The joke might actually be better than a true story. If it were true, we're talking about the (Darwin-award) death of a human being.

John M. You wrote: "I have to point out (this being the intellectual nexus of the universe), that it's a story and never really happened so it's not a valid illustration."

That's a bizarre and condescending take.

Now, if Shrode had posited the story as true when it's not (and that is a preacher's disease, just not one that Shrode suffers from) you might have a point. But in this case you don't.

In addition, I think Shrode's point about the parables is an excellent one.

Here's another story that speaks to the point of the post and, I promise, is totally true (in the most relevant sense):

It was a Wednesday morning in the worship center of a big famous mega church. The Worship Leader was on the stage checking out the lighting sequence for the meeting that night, and the church janitor was vaccuming in a far corner. Suddenly, the Executive Pastor came running in, flung himself down on the stage in front of the big rotating globe and cried out over and over again, "Oh God! I am nothing without Jesus!" The Worship Leader, seeing this spiritual giant prostrate on the floor, was overcome with a sense of his own unworthiness and flung himself to the floor beside him, also crying out, "Oh God! I am nothing without Jesus!" The janitor, seeing these two stalwart Men of God so greatly humbling themselves in the worship center, also got a shot of humility and came running up on the stage and also flung himself down on the floor and cried, "Oh God! I am nothing without Jesus!"

The Executive Pastor looked over at the janitor, then elbowed the Worship Leader and winked at him and whispered, "Heh! Look who thinks he's nothing without Jesus!"

Thanks Bill, for the support.

After I wrote my response to John M., I noticed that I had two fictional stories in my post. One by me, one by Jesus. I made the parables comment forgetting that I had actually used one!

By the way, I'm just curious. Was that the first time any of you all heard that joke. I thought it was a pretty old and familiar one. There have been many versions of it around for years. A military version ends with a private turning to the old chaplain next to him and saying, "That's OK sir, the general just took my rucksack."

And Bill, you are right, if it were true, it would be a horrible story.

Bob Sacamento, do you have firsthand knowledge of this story? What does it mean? Was the Executive Pastor playing a practical joke? What did he think he was saying? Even though I'm sure I don't fully understand the story, what I do understand is simply awful. In this case, if it's true, that makes it worse, in my opinion. Ugh.

I guess I can't tell a joke.

Anyway, when I said it was true, I said it was true in the most relevant sense, meaning, sort of like a parable. A really stupid parable that apparently no one is going to get.

So, a joke explained is a joke forever ruined, but anyway ... It betrays an attitude in the Executive Pastor's mind that only those who have been "elevated" can realize how humble they need to be, while the rest of the teeming masses are just lowly by default. Oh well.

Bob,
Don't blame yourself! It's my own ignorance. If had a penny for every time I took something too seriously, or missed a joke....Dude, my foundation would dwarf the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation.

The "true in the most relevant sense" remark made me wonder if that's what you meant. True as in the lesson, not whether or not the story happened.

As far as what it meant, I admit I missed that. But that's just me. Please don't blame yourself. ;-)

And you know what? It is "true". Really. A good lesson.