"Do Christians in fact eagerly long for Christ's return? The more Christians are caught up in enjoying the good things of this life, and the more they neglect genuine Christian fellowship and their personal relationship with Christ, the less they will long for his return."
- Wayne Grudem
Sunday, July 27, 2008
Here's another "what's your interpretation" type question. This text is, I think, one of the most disputed passages in the Bible. I was talking to a Pentecostal recently who suggested that your eternal soul rests in a correct interpretation of this single passage (I don't buy that idea, by the way).
"Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God'" (John 3:5).
To read the entire passage in its context, click here.
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Comments on "Nick At Nite":
2. Bird
- 07/27/2008 8:49 am CDT
Crossbow,
The dispute primarily has to do with what "water" means here. I think there are three main interpretations:
1. Water means baptism (possibly even John's baptism)
2. Water means a physical birth
3. Water is another way of being "born of the Spirit"
This is a key prooftext often times for Christians who believe in salvific baptism.
4. The Ancient Mariner
- 07/27/2008 12:46 pm CDT
Well, it's pretty clearly a hendiadys ("a figure in which a complex idea is expressed by two words connected by a copulative conjunction"), so whichever way you take it, the important point is not to split them up as two separate things; all of those interpretations are reasonable, though if water refers to baptism, I'd say it has to refer to John's baptism (since Jesus wouldn't have been referring to something that Nicodemus couldn't know about, and thus couldn't have understood); using it as a prooftext for baptismal regeneration is a misinterpretation.
5. Crossbow
- 07/27/2008 4:05 pm CDT
I see. When you speak of salvific baptism, do you mean that you aren't saved until you are baptized, or that you can be baptized for the dead? I am assuming the first one. But I can't say I have ever had a decent conversation with anyone that believes either about this matter.
I think your personal interpretation of this scripture could also come from your view of what "Kingdom of God" means - heaven, or the dominion of God on earth? Or, and the Vinyard church and others put it, the Kingdom that is both present and coming. If you believe that the Kingdom of God is literally (an only) heaven, then this scripture would be important for salvation. If you believe that Kingdom of God could mean the dominion of God's authority on this earth, then you could see this as meaning "if you don't get baptized in water and the Spirit, then you won't fully experience everything God has for you."
Of course, that is all over-simplified, but just some thoughts. I still don't see it as us getting to heaven someday and God says yo us: "Opps! You got John 3:5 wrong! Off to the lake of fire for you!"
6. Raindream
- 07/29/2008 11:30 am CDT
I saw an advertisement in the newspaper from a Church of God congregation on this idea, urging people to receive salvific baptism. But I'm with the others--baptism is not required for salvation, but it is important and signifies the new birth which is of the Spirit.
7. Jim Crocker
- 07/30/2008 9:37 am CDT
I think this one is relatively easy based on the context. Jesus is telling Nicodemus that he must be born again (two births) to have eternal life. Otherwise, he will not obtain eternal life (he will experience the 2nd death). Therefore, one birth (physical) equals 2 deaths (physical and spiritual). On the other hand, two births (physical and spiritual) equals one death (physical only).
Based this then, one must be born twice (once of water and once of the Spirit) to obtain eternal life. Any other interpretation I am aware of would require a work for salvation.
8. Joseph D. Walch
- 07/30/2008 6:05 pm CDT
I suppose it all depends on whether salvation requires/results in righteousness or if there is such a thing as the Right or Wrong (as opposed t the state of being called the Good or Evil--which is a different thing entirely).
If Righteousness isn't universally required for/resulting from salvation then I suppose all Jesus is talking about here is the fact that somebody has to passively aquire a physical body through birth, and a metaphorical spiritual body through Jesus.
Leave a Comment:
Hey Bird - can you outline maybe what are the controversies that surround this passage? I'm not familiar with any of it. But once again, my general response to your Pentecostal friend would be: "why would God make salvation so cryptic and difficult to figure out? Paul and the apostles seemed to think that it was easy to know what to do, even if some had a hard time actually committing to that decision.