"Membership in the family of God is neither inconsequential or something to be casually ignored. The church is God's agenda for the world. Jesus said, "I will build my church, and all the powers of hell will not conquer it." The church is indestructable and will exist for eternity. It will outlive this universe, and so will your role in it."
- Rick Warren
Wednesday, June 30, 2010
Yesterday I had to call Microsoft Tech support. We are trying to use our computer to send and receive faxes. We've never done that before, but we're trying to set it up that way. So I called Microsoft so they could help me set it up.
I could actually understand what he was saying and he didn't sound like he was in India, so I was hopeful. He was also very friendly.
First he has me pull up Windows "Fax and Scan feature" and read it to him. Step 1 for setup says to plug my fax line into my fax modem. I have no fax modem. I explain this to him. He asks me if I have any modem, I tell him I have a DSL modem. He says, "In all honesty, I've never actually heard of a fax modem before. This is new to me." He asks me to hold while he researches this issue...
When he comes back to me, his first words to me are...
Wait for it....
"According to Wikipedia..."
You can pick yourself up off the floor now.
So now Microsoft techs are using Wikipedia for their research. You may go ahead and let your laughter out now. No one around you will mind. I wonder if Wikipedia knows this? I can see the ad tag now, "Microsoft uses us to learn how to use their own products."
Also spoken to me by my Microsoft tech support specialist while we were talking...
"Pardon me, but my browser is going slow. It's been acting funky all day."
I wonder if I should have suggested that he try Firefox?
Finally, he discovered by doing "research" that I need to go buy another modem, one that will be analog so that it can dial phone numbers, which a digital modem will not. Though he's not sure even then that it will work. He suggested I call my ISP to make sure they would recognize it and support it. In my Microsoft guy's defense, the dude at my ISP tech support had never heard of it either. And he said, "I asked around and all the other guys around here are shrugging their shoulders."
I should also say in my Microsoft guy's defense, that he was a very nice guy and he really tried. I don't blame him. I blame the Microsoft machine (both literal and metaphorical.)
So apparently, Microsoft Windows has been listing as a feature for a decade now that your computer can send and receive faxes, but no one actually knows how. I have this theory that no one actually does it, but we all assume that someone out there is...
It's like having a red button that says "turbo boost" on your car you've never pushed. You have it, so it must be cool...but you never use it. I wonder how many other features Windows claims to have, but they aren't actually real things?
I close with my second favorite quote (following "According to Wikipedia...") spoken by my Microsoft Rep...
"Oh my God. I'm getting blocked by a firewall on my end.":-)
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Comments on "On The Phone With Microsoft....A True Story":
2. Raindream
- 06/30/2010 10:56 am CDT
I remember hearing someone use Microsoft Fax as an example of lack of competition. If there were competition for faxing through computers (or just PCs), the man said, we wouldn't have crap-disk software like Microsoft Fax.
4. Shrode
- 06/30/2010 12:29 pm CDT
Bobbi,
If you go into print is there a fax option?
Yes. When I select it, it tells me I need to either hook up to a server or to a fax modem.
Before you call Microsoft support Google it!
Apparently that's what Microsoft support does anyway! ;-)
7. Evan
- 06/30/2010 2:22 pm CDT
I still send faxes from my XP computer quite often. It's actually very easy.
The fax modem they are talking about is the combination telephone/modem card (likely) built into your PC already. It is that standard phone jack (the smaller RJ11 one, not the network RJ45 one) likely located the back of your computer. It is that same port that can be used for dial up connections, if you don't have cable, DSL, or wireless.
My laptop is a little over 2 years old, and it still came with that card and port built in. Some newer laptops and computers might not have them anymore, but I think most still do. To fax, all I do is unplug my phone jack from the base of my landline cordless phone, then plug that into my RJ11 jack port on the back of my computer, and then launch the Microsoft Fax Console program preinstalled in the Accessories/Communications program group.
You have to cut the guy some slack. He was probably young, and archaic methods of using telephone land lines are becoming more and more a mystery to them in the time of cellphones and wireless.
8. Dave
- 06/30/2010 2:43 pm CDT
Microsoft hoobie whatie? Fax modem PC card phone jack RJ thingies? What stream of the multiverse is this anyway? Who could objectively "know" much of anything about this stuff? I think George Orwell's head is actually in charge over at Microsoft. And he's looking for some kind of revenge for Animal Farm being thought of as a children's story by well meaning educators. Hence the whole Microsoft hoobie whatie. Bill Gates probably keeps Orwell's head encased in a cabinet next to his Futurama DVD's. Hidden from sight.
9. Shrode
- 06/30/2010 3:18 pm CDT
Damon wrote:They are talking about a plain old dial-up modem. When you hook a phone line into that modem, you'll able to send faxes from your PC.
That may be...but since I have DSL, that's my problem...do I have to go back to dial-up to send faxes? how would that work...
Bobbi wrote: What they mean by a server, I think, is a service you pay for. There should be some 30 day free trials.
No, Bobbi, I think they are talking about being at some big office where you are a part of a network, and so you hook up to the office server and the high paid IT guys make the server send faxes by magic. There are internet fax services out there such as efax, but our needs go far beyond that. My wife receives hundreds of pages of faxes a day as a part of the work she does for my dad's small business, and when you use such high volume through those fax services the cost becomes unreasonably high. We know this from experience.
10. Shrode
- 06/30/2010 3:22 pm CDT
Evan wrote:
I still send faxes from my XP computer quite often. It's actually very easy.
We have a windows 7 machine, brand new.
The fax modem they are talking about is the combination telephone/modem card (likely) built into your PC already. It is that standard phone jack (the smaller RJ11 one, not the network RJ45 one) likely located the back of your computer. It is that same port that can be used for dial up connections, if you don't have cable, DSL, or wireless.
I looked for that. Don't have it. The only jack I have is the network jack. That's it. Only one. I guess that's how they make new computers now.
My laptop is a little over 2 years old, and it still came with that card and port built in. Some newer laptops and computers might not have them anymore, but I think most still do. To fax, all I do is unplug my phone jack from the base of my landline cordless phone, then plug that into my RJ11 jack port on the back of my computer, and then launch the Microsoft Fax Console program preinstalled in the Accessories/Communications program group.
This is not an option for us. We have to be set up to receive faxes 24/7. We already have a dedicated fax line, and even an ifax machine, which is networked to our computer and receives faxes and then sends them to our email inbox. But we are wanting to get rid of the ifax machine because it has become too unreliable.
You have to cut the guy some slack. He was probably young, and archaic methods of using telephone land lines are becoming more and more a mystery to them in the time of cellphones and wireless.
I think you're right about that. :-)
11. Raindream
- 06/30/2010 6:55 pm CDT
I don't think you can fax through DSL, unless your service provider has a system to allow it. I think your best option is to look for an online faxing service, something that will take your incoming faxes and give to you by email and vice-versa.
http://faxzero.com/ This is one I found just now.
12. Evan
- 06/30/2010 7:37 pm CDT
Shrode,
That's too bad about not having a fax modem anymore, but yeah, they are really stripping all sorts of 'old' technology from new computers. Unfortunately, I don't think there is any way you can directly send or receive faxes without one.
That ifax machine must have both a fax modem and a network card (or possibly wireless network card) built in. The fax modem plugs into your fax line and lets it communicate with other fax machines, while the network card obviously lets it communicate with your computer.
Without the ifax's modem, in order to do the same thing, you have to get a fax modem directly installed in your PC. If it is a desktop with open card slots, it should be cheap to buy one and easy to install. In fact, if you have anyone that has an older computer they now longer use, you can probably just remove the fax modem from that and install it in yours (assuming the card is compatible).
However, if it is a laptop, you'll probably have to research PC fax modem cards that would match up to open slots available for them.
The good news is with a dedicated fax line already, you should be fine there, and shouldn't have to change anything with that. All you need is the fax modem installed in your PC, and after that it is pretty easy.
13. Deacontrek
- 06/30/2010 10:38 pm CDT
The problem is getting confused by the idea of how one gets "on the internet" with doing old technology things such as faxing (which is a 1940's tech). You can buy (though I can't vouch for the quality or the reliability or price of) external USB fax/modems for laptops or desktops if you don't want to install an expansion card into the desktop. I doubt though that there is a compatible driver to make either an internal card or an external modem work with Win7. Most drivers for faxing and dial up are DOS based and won't work with Win7. That being said, if you have a multifunction printer it would include the fax modem and usually has a program that interfaces it with your computer (is this what you mean by an ifax machine?) Fax/modems are no longer included with any new computer especially those with any Windows OS higher than XP. In the old days (When AOL or Compuserve were the only ISP's) the fax/modem was the way you connected to the internet (dial-up), no broadband connection (DSL/cable/satellite/wireless) supports or uses dialup or fax/modems. It is not surprising yet it is very disappointing that no one you spoke with had any idea what a fax/modem was. This is not a Microsoft issue, it is a hardware issue and as I said new computers don't have nor generally support fax/modems, this would be a problem with Apple, Linux, or any other OS as well since it is an outdated hardware thing. Personally I think it is a little weird that people/companies still use/depend on fax so much. Since so many people and even businesses are doing away with land lines because of cost. Faxes of any kind including computer faxes require a landline.
14. Shrode
- 06/30/2010 11:23 pm CDT
Our ifax machine is a fax machine that can send and receive faxes in the conventional paper way...but can also send and receive faxes electronically from the computer, or receive them from someone else, and then sends it as an email attachment to the computer it is networked with. Quite a cool machine actually.
So are you saying that our multifunction printer should be able to send and receive faxes? (It's an hp printer/scanner. Hmmmm. I'll have to look into that.)
15. Evan
- 07/01/2010 11:11 am CDT
Shrode,
If you have no luck with your printer, here is a link to a product that should solve your problem.
http://www.amazon.com/Encore-V-92-External-Data-Modem/dp/B002GIAUDG/ref=pd_cp_e_1
It's an external fax modem that connects through any USB port, and from the reviews, buyers state that it works with Windows 7. The cost at $32.99 is a bit expensive, and I saw a different similar device for $23.99 on Amazon, but it wasn't clear that one would be compatible with Windows 7. You might also be able to find cheaper places to buy one of these than Amazon (maybe ebay, etc.).
18. jez
- 07/02/2010 11:22 am CDT
Either use a multifunction printer like your old ifax, or (perhaps as an interim) get an external fax/modem to attach to your computer (should be less than $50). You don't need an account with an ISP to use it, since it just uses the telephone line to connect directly to the recipient's fax machine.
Here's some examples of the sort of modems I mean: http://www.ebuyer.com/search?sq=external&store=8&cat=109&subcat=2282&sort=pricelow&limit=10&page=1&subsearch=Go (British site but it serves for illustration).
19. Ian
- 07/03/2010 8:54 pm CDT
The reason why new machines don't come with the fax modems anymore is because they have become mostly obsolete.
Unless you're in Mexico or a third world country, most companies expect that you will scan your documents and email them as PDFs or JPGs. This is much more efficient and allows you to keep track of your transactions a lot more accurately.
21. Shrode
- 07/05/2010 10:36 am CDT
Thank you everyone for your help and support!
Special thanks to Jez and Evan for the advice about the fax modem.
Ian, I looked into using scanning and emailing as an alternative, and its not possible....
As for the rest of you cynics who think I live in the dark ages and am wasting my time on obsolete technology...
Here's the deal. My wife works for my Dad who has a small business selling continuing education courses to physical therapists. They order the courses and receive them in the mail. (Yes, the mail. there are online courses available, but most prefer snailmail and printed copies.) Then they read the course, take the test and send the test via fax or snail mail to my wife who grades them and issues the certificates.
On occasion, some will try to scan and email. And it's a disaster. They can't scan it right, and it comes in messed up, or the pages out of order. Or the email gets stuck in a spam box, or they send it to the wrong email address or whatever.
The sad fact is that the average person that she deals with can't scan and email. They're just not capable. They have a hard enough time faxing....
But at least the fax is simple and hard to mess up.
This is a much more serious problem than you might think. As far as being "more efficient" I disagree. If they fax it, they just put it on a fax machine and dial the number and hit send. (Or they hand it to someone else in the office at their hospital to do it.)
Scanning involves two extra steps. First they have to scan it in, one page at a time. (With a fax, the machine does it all at once.) Then they have to save it. Then they have to sit down, type in the email address, find the attachment and send it.
Believe me, when dealing with the general public you don't want to give them any more steps than you have to. :-)
Scanning and emailing may in fact be better... but I don't think it's "more efficient", not ergonomically speaking, at least not yet.
As far as what most companies expect, your experience doesn't match ours. We are dealing with professionals, and almost none of them seem to be used to or able to scan and email documents. Almost everyone faxes. We deal with people from all over the US and Canada and some from around the world.
22. Shrode
- 07/05/2010 10:40 am CDT
UPDATE
I bought a data/fax/analog/dialup modem that plugs into the back of the computer via a USB port. Then I plugged the dedicated fax line into the modem. We received two faxes...then nothing. And we can't send.
So I called Microsoft again. This person didn't know how to make it work either. She took control of my computer, fiddled around for an hour, and in the end gave up. She was unable to setup "Windows fax and scan" so that it could send and receive faxes.
She said that the technical department was going to research it and call me back today. She told me I should have a friend at another location ready to test sending and receiving faxes...
And now the email on that computer won't work. Don't know if it's Microsoft's fault or not...but I'm inclined to think that it is.
I'll keep you all posted.
23. Shrode
- 07/05/2010 5:01 pm CDT
Updated Update:
Give me an "M", give me an "O", give me an "R", give me an "O", give me an "N", give me an "S"
What's that spell? If you don't know, you're one too.
AAAAAAAAARGH!
Level 2 tech support was supposed to call me back. Level 2 is a microsoft term for the smart guys who are supposed to be able to fix what the initial (level 1) folks are unable to.
They called my dad. He's the one who set up this tech support case, but I've been talking to them for days now. I've given them my contact info, and they've claimed to have updated it TWO times. But they called my Dad. He called me. I called them. Went through the rigamoroll to talk to a tech support person. He opened the case and said, "Oh, you were supposed to talk to a level 2 tech support person." "I know", I said. "They called the wrong number."
So he took my info and said he'd have someone call. That was 30 minutes ago. I'm still waiting...
And meanwhile we are still unable to send or receive faxes.
25. Bill
- 07/05/2010 8:16 pm CDT
I was at Redmond for a meeting with Microsoft a few months ago. They are nice people. They spent the day talking about their roadmap for the future of some of their products.
Then they offered us a ride to the company store for some discounted merch.
Then they got lost on the way to the company store (on the MS Campus, where we are).
Microsoft is lovable yet bumbling . . .
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If you go into print is there a fax option?