Praying he accepts Jesus...and that God use any means necessary to draw Ted to himself in faith.

Shrode, I just don’t know. That statement does seem just a tad pharisaical to me. I know Ted Kennedy has made some mistakes, and he’s a political enemy to many social conservatives. Assuming you’ve been praying for his soul all this time, can you not find enough brotherly love in your heart to pray for his physical wellbeing also? Reading your comment immediately brought to my mind a certain parable from Luke 18. I don’t think anybody can really know if another person has already accepted Jesus or if Jesus has already accepted them or not.

It is always hard when somebody is confronted with their mortality, and I hope Ted Kennedy handles it well.

Praying

JDW,

I had hoped this thread would stay gracious. Your comparing my friend to a pharisee (twice) in your comment crosses the line.

No more, please.

And I thought Phil's comment was appropriate.

Sorry, just calling 'em as I see 'em. I'm a little sensitive to the "Praying you accept Jesus" rhetoric as you may imagine.

This is a sad thing, indeed. Despite my disagreements with his politics, I don't wish that sort of thing on anyone.

Ditto to what Shrode and Bill said.

It was Jesus who said don't fear the one who can only kill you. Fear the one who can kill your body and your soul.

It's not Pharisaical to care about the heart more than the outer body.

I'm sorry for any trouble I may have caused.

Thanks Bill for sticking up for me, but it's true, I probably should have said more about his physical health.

But honestly I believe that the Bible teaches that spiritual health is more important.

It's just this: I think it's appropriate to pray for relief from suffering for people, and we should. But it's nearsighted and close to futile if we don't also pray for their souls. "What good is it if you gain the whole world and lose your soul". I think that giving someone a few extra years of life just so they can go to hell is like putting sunscreen on a man on a liferaft stranded in the ocean. It's temporary relief, that doesn't solve the ultimate problem.

(For example as I've prayed for the people in Myanmar and China, I've prayed that God would work through Christians and missionaries that the Gospel would be spread along with physical aid.)

And for countless believers throughout the millenia, the destiny of one's soul was even more important than misery or death. How's that quote go that's in our rotation? "Any hurt is worth it that puts us on the path to peace in Christ" ?

And so Yes, I'm praying for Ted's healing...
First, that whatever God does, that Jesus' name is glorified.
Second, for his soul, that he would respond to the Gospel in faith and be forgiven that he might spend eternity with Christ.
Third, for his healing according to God's will, whether that be in this life for God's glory, or ultimate healing which means going to be with Jesus.
Fourth, for his family. For strength, patience, supernatural peace, and ultimately, that they would be drawn to Christ in faith.

These are the same things that I pray for any unbeliever that is going through hardship.

And for the record, just in case you ask :), I don't know if he's a believer or not. So if he already is, then I think God will know to listen to requests 1, 3 and 4. :)

I know Ted Kennedy has made some mistakes, and he’s a political enemy to many social conservatives.

I'm sure you know this, but this isn't the reason that I'm praying under the assumption that he's not saved.

Assuming you’ve been praying for his soul all this time, can you not find enough brotherly love in your heart to pray for his physical wellbeing also?

I can, but not at the detriment of his soul. Oh, and I'll admit that I haven't been praying for Ted Kennedy's soul personally. I'm simply not able to pray personally for every public figure in the world. I have prayed generally for the souls of our political leaders however. But I could look at this as a God-given opportunity to pray for his soul specifically. :)

I don’t think anybody can really know if another person has already accepted Jesus or if Jesus has already accepted them or not.

I agree, but I think there are some pretty good indicators. A public profession of faith in Christ alone for one. The fruit of the Spirit for two.

It is always hard when somebody is confronted with their mortality, and I hope Ted Kennedy handles it well. Me too. :) Of course, you and I may mean two different things by that. ;-)

I know I overreacted. This is simply a very touchy subject. I think everybody will be shocked at the Judgement Day to see people who they thought were not saved be accepted with open arms by Jesus Christ; and conversely to see people whom we assumed were in the bosom of the Lord all this time be thrust down to hell.

That being said, and with recognition that you admitted that you really don't know the state of Ted Kennedy's soul (showing that my first statements were hastilly made), I just react vicerally to any kind of talk implying a person isn't saved. It is a horrible thought that I don't take flippantly. I feel if I were to make such a presumption that I would be taking my own salvation in my own hands and that to deny others the benefit of doubt, I would deny the very principles of mercy and grace and receive the same merciless judgement that I so casually meted out to others in life. Perhaps I am simply not as good as others who are more comfortable presuming (in word and deed) a sinner's relationship with Jesus Christ, but I simply cannot. That's a line I feel forbidden to cross. I'll try to overlook such comments in the future.

As long as we're being honest Joseph, I don't know if your comment here was conciliatory or not. It's hard to tell.

If I quit reading after the word "flippantly" I'm totally with you and we're good. As far as the rest...Let's leave Bill's thread alone and agree to disagree. But I'd love to take up the rest with you in another venue sometime. Maybe email?

Rest assured that comment #9 was a statement of my own personal feelings concerning my own actions vis-a-vis others, and I didn't mean to imply that they should be applied to others. Anyways, I've probably said too much on the subject already.

My mother died from this type of brain tumor. Nothing works against it. It's one of the few cancers out there where medical science has made no progress.