Well said. BTW on the last 2 Survivors there have been "Christians" and some praying on it. We always want the "good" people to win and the "bad" people to lose. Some people were so "bad" that the majority of viewers wanted them to lose.

Fly - the "Christians" in the last Survivor (Brandon in particular) were among the worst examples of what it means to be a Christ follower ever committed to video - I much prefer Matt from a few seasons back - wonderful Christian guy.

Survivor is AWESOME......but I'm not a fan of either of the other 2 shows - too cheesy.

I know, Bill's shocked I would say that.

When I was in college, my discipleship group played RISK every weekend (we were nerds). If you know RISK you know that (much like Survivor) its a game of alliances. Before each game, we would vote on "can alliances be broken?" - If the the vote was "yes" then people could make an alliance with another player (not to attack each other) and then renig - it was a fun twist.

I've always thought of Survivor as "Risk with broken alliances allowed" - which is why it has been among my favorite shows of all-time.

I also dated a past Survivor winner in college (that's a fun story for another time).

You're probably right, though trust me, "cheesy" was kind :)

I watched season 2 (I think) of Survivor and really enjoyed it. It was the season that Elizabeth (Filarski) Hasselbeck was on the show. Her nice-ness while still being competitive was such a refreshing difference to the scheming and machinations of many of the other competitors. My wife suspected that I had a crush on her. I've watched parts of a couple of other seasons but none in recent years. Part of my distaste is all the lying, scheming and backstabbing, and a couple of times when I tried to watch after that one season I just couldn't find any competitors who I found appealing to root for.

We watch very little TV. I watch sports a fair amount, but that accounts for probably 80% of the time our TV is on. So I don't usually have a lot to add to discussions about tv shows, reality or otherwise.

I have a good friend who loves The Biggest Loser and says he sees all kinds of redemptive messages in it, as the trainer looks at these people and sees not what they are now but who they were made to be and who they can be. I hadn't thought of the unhealthy/risky aspects of the intense workouts for such heavy people. I'm sure they sign all kinds of waivers. With medics present and the like, I'm sure the contestants themselves are relatively safe. But to the extent it encourages other similarly out of shape people to go out and try to do too much too fast, I can see why it would be a trainer's nightmare.

I've never thought of it as resembling the gospel, for one reason. Every family that gets the makeover has at least one member who is the 2nd coming of Mother Theresa.....so one-dimensionally wonderful despite being kicked around by life, that they deserve the house - like its the least the show could do.

Good point, nhe, but I didn't say it was a picture of the gospel, I said it was "the closest" picture of the gospel in reality TV, and that for a few specific reasons outlined in the post.

Watched the 1st season of Survivor. Richard Hatch won. Never watched another season.

Beck and girls watch "Biggest Loser." I don't. Not interested.

Beck and I watch "Amazing Race." I like this reality show b/c even though there is some drama and scheming, typically racers are too busy to get too bogged down in it. We get to root for nice people and see all these different parts of the world at the same time. Very cool.

In terms of "reality shows," we also like the A&E/History shows "Pawn Stars," "Storage Wars," and "American Pickers," but those aren't really game show-type reality shows. I like the history, the curiosity, and the eccentricity of those shows.

Same here on Big Brother Jared......that show jumped the shark after the one-legged guy (season 1)

Bill, I like my gospel more "messy" (and full of "lying, scheming and backstabbing" - at least that should be part of the story) - seems more true to life, and more like me. :)

OK. :-)

To prevent another 100 comment post, I'm going to just affirm that you and I love the same gospel (there's only one) and just express our admiration for and appreciation of it in different ways.

My point was only (only, only, only, singularly, and specifically) that the gift that is given in EHMO is not earned. You make a good point that it is somewhat earned (to be fair, I've only watched maybe three episodes of EHMO in my life) - I fully agree with you. It's an imperfect picture.

good point Quaid - maybe Happy Days would NOT have jumped the shark if Fonzie had one leg.

Survivor is sometimes fun to watch, but ultimately a pretty vacuous endeavor. While it doesn't exactly offend my moral sensibilities, I can only take so much of players using "the Game" as a way to justify being a horrible person.

I've never watched the Biggest Loser, because I suspect I'd feel guilty and lazy the entire time.

Extreme Home Makeover always makes me happy. It's also my fiance's favorite show, so...

The Biggest Loser always breaks my heart because I grow to love the people and know they leave the Ranch slaves to their sin. They all have the same epiphany that goes something like this: "I learned I need to love myself. I've never done anything for myself, it's always been for others. Now it's about me." Etc. blah, blah, blah. They're problem IS them. They love themselves AND their sin more than anything in the universe and until they realize this, they're doomed to be fat in this world and destroyed in the next.
Not one contestant has ever realized they're full of wicked desires that control them and want to kill them. Not one has admitted the real enemy is themselves. It's tragic.

Michelle,

I think that issues like overeating, alcoholism, drug abuse, etc. are often symptoms of serious self-loathing. They don't start out that way, necessarily, but they eventually become that. If you hate yourself, it is likely that you will treat yourself very rotten, even if the immediate result is pleasure. Drug abuse, for instance, is often used as an escape from despair. The idea that people who are pathological over-eaters are so because they just love themselves too much seems to be missing a point about addictive personalities. In many cases, growing to love yourself, or at least to see yourself properly in the light of grace is a huge step towards recovery. That is not to say that the contestants on the show necessarily have any kind of Christian epiphany, but hating oneself is just as much a sin as loving oneself too much. Both conditions, after all, indicate the same sin, which is Pride.

I think that seeing God properly often involves viewing oneself in a healthier light. God loves me, God makes me valuable, therefore I cannot believe the lie that I am worthless and unlovable.

Greed and foolishness certainly play their parts, but it is certainly possible to imagine a person who is greedy, foolish, AND despairing of their own life.

The Ephesians passage is referring to marriage, and not addiction. In truth, I'm not quite sure what Paul means, because there are many examples of people not caring for their flesh (suicide being the most obvious). Going back to the Biggest Loser, I think it's clear that the contestants don't care for their flesh. They indulge it. Perhaps that's caring for it too much, but then what would one say about those with eating disorders, or meth addicts?

You are correct that behind every sin is the same ancient lie, but I think it's simplistic to think that every time a sin is committed, it is a product of pure hedonism, or that we keep doing the same things simply because we desire to feel excellent all the time. I say it is simplistic, because it ignores the despair aspect of sin. The typical pattern of addiction takes one from pleasure-seeking to despair. Nearly every recovering addict will admit that there is a point in which the substance becomes simply a crutch to try to get through their wretched lives. If it was all about pleasure, it seems there would never be any urge to get well.

I'm not arguing that loving oneself too much never comes into play, because it certainly does. And, as I said before, I think that any unhealthy self-image, whether negative or positive, springs out of the same basic sin, which is Pride. Because of that, I think it's entirely possible for the two poles to compete against one another in the same soul, and even, at times, to coexist.

Andrew-the bottom line of Paul's meaning is Ephesians is that people love their own bodies, and sacrifice for them. Jesus did it with us, (the Church) and a husband should do this for his wife.
So too, even in suicide people worship themselves. It's a very selfish act, usually not related to self-loathing, but a despair that they're suffering and want it to end.
Think about it--if you really loathe someone, hate them, you don't mind if they suffer. (Terrible, but true.) You probably actually like the idea and think they deserve it. So, if someone truly hated themselves, they'd accept suffering, knowing they deserve it. Instead, they say, "I can't suffer this way. I must escape this. I want to feel good, so I will end this suffering. Because I care about myself."
Addictions are a form of self-love--the person just wants to feel good. If they hated themselves, they wouldn't care if they feel good or not. We don't want our enemy to feel good, do we?
So, Karl, I don't think there is such a thing as self-hatred at all. Possibly depression, anger, despair because one doesn't have the body, money, family, life, that one wants, but still, it gets back to a caring for oneself. We think, "Hey! I deserve better!" It always gets back to self-obsession, or at least, a great care for oneself, and what one has, feels, etc.
We're valued and loved only because God values and loves us, not because there is something so cool about us. Consider in Luke, when Jesus describes the three "lost" things--in each story, the searcher is obsessed over something rather menial--a lost sheep, (in comparison to the entire flock left behind), an ungrateful son, and one lousy coin.
We do have an intrinsic value, the image of God, but even that is not from us, if you think about it. And, sadly, Hell will be full of people made in God's image--so He calls the shots as to how far He will value and love us.

Funny, my experience is based on experience as well. This should lead us both to examine the Scriptures more carefully, I guess. And I say that not sarcastically.