"Why do people choose the substitute over God himself? Probably the most important reason is that it obviates accountability to God. We can meet idols on our own terms because they are our own creations. They are safe, predictable, and controllable; they are, in Jeremiah's colorful language, the 'scarecrows in a cornfield' (10:5). They are portable and completely under the user's control. They offer nothing like the threat of a God who thunders from Sinai and whose providence in this world so often appears to us to be incomprehensible and dangerous . . . [People] need face only themselves. That is the appeal of idolatry."
- David F. Wells
Sunday, January 2, 2011
I want to revisit a post of Bill's from 2 years ago and some of the comments. :-)
In this post from Bill, he wrote:
Just like the Titans season, the career of Vince Young has been resurrected. It's hard to believe that just a few short weeks ago the prevailing wisdom, even among Titan fans, was that Vince Young was done. "He's not an NFL quarterback". "He's a quitter", etc. Vince Young has proven what he really is: a winner. There's no stat-sheet for that.
- Passing over Vince Young for Mario Williams in 2006 is once again looking like a stupid decision. Again, the Titans can point to a lot of reasons they won the game last night, but from this Texans fan's perspective, without VY, the Titans don't win that game. He made plays when he needed to.
- Maybe teams will once again crack the VY code. I don't know . . .
- Quaid, who never gave up on Vince Young in conversations in this space, should be feeling a satisfying sense of vindication this morning.
I commented:
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I'm as glad as anybody we're winning, and I take no sadness in Vince Young's awesomeness all of a sudden. :-) But I still suspect he's not the future.
But again, I'll be glad if I'm wrong. I just want to win.
But we've had good scrambling quarterbacks in the past, and I think it's clear across the NFL, those aren't the types of QB's that both win championships and create legacies.
4 in a row is awesome. I'm banking on a 10-6 season. :-)
But let's get a couple more games under his belt before we start saying he's the Titans resurrection.
I suppose there's still time for Young to pull off a Vick-like turnaround, but I think time has unfortunately proven my appraisal right. Young is toast. He's not NFL championship material; just isn't. And he's also proven himself to be a classless moron.
I don't mean to say I told you so, so I'll just say "Check out Mr. Thomas Brady. He's got mad skills."
And I hope my Titans will let Vince go and get their quarterback situation figured out.
UPDATE: 1/5/11 - Titans are reporting that Vince Young has been let go as quarterback and won't be on Tennessee's roster next season.
Trackbacks:
Trackback URL: http://thinklings.org/bloo.trackback.php/6321.
Comments on "Whither Vince Young?":
3. Bill
- 01/02/2011 10:24 pm CST
Jared PWNS Bill in the prediction department, again . . .
I honestly don't remember ever being on the VY bandwagon. But there it is . . .
4. Bill
- 01/02/2011 10:29 pm CST
Heh, just read the post. It's from last year, not two years ago.
For another fabulous example of my predictive powers, there's this from the post "I think this game also was the end of Gary Kubiak's career here as head coach, which is sad. I like Koobs. But he hasn't been able to turn this team into a winner. He's gotten tantalizingly close. But the calls for his removal are going to get loud, now."
Here we sit one year later. Kubes is STILL head coach, and strong rumor has it he will remain so for at least one more year despite a 6-10 season.
OK, so let me try reverse predictology:
Gary Kubiak WILL REMAIN head coach of the Houston Texans for another year. And there's NO WAY they make the playoffs next year.
There, I just sealed Kube's fate. He'll probably get fired tomorrow.
And, we're super-bowl bound in 2011 :-)
5. Daniel Ross
- 01/03/2011 8:25 am CST
Sadly, you are correct, Jared.
The Titans better get their QB situation fixed this off-season or they are toast for a few years, IMO.
I think Fisher is gone (as much as I hate to say that) and I don't think he would care all that much to be gone, especially if Bud Adams "chooses" VY over him.
I thought, this year, that VY had matured but his true colors didn't take long to reveal themselves.
6. Karl
- 01/03/2011 10:08 am CST
Not sure that I agree scrambling QB's don't win championships or create legacies.
They don't if they remain *primarily* scrambling QB's. But if their scrambling ability complements their ability to throw from the pocket they can do just fine. It's just that there are few out there who can both run and pocket-pass at a really high NFL-quality level (read and dissect a defense, throw the deep out to the opposite side of the field, etc.). A few of the all-time greats who were really dangerous with their feet include:
Staubach
Tarkenton
Steve Young
Elway
Mike Vick is approaching that level with his play this season. Whether he can sustain it is another question. I don't think anyone expected Young to be great if all he remained was a running QB. The hope was that he could take a Steve Young-like progression (really the prototype of a QB progressing from a scramble-first, to throw-first and scramble if necessary QB) and become a competent pocket passer who was also a dangerous runner. If he'd had any kind of work ethic and desire to maximize his talent I think he could have. His failure to develop has more to do with lack of hard work IMO, than with his physical tools.
7. nhe
- 01/03/2011 1:52 pm CST
Michael Vick didn't really mature (as a person) till jail time and age 30 were behind him.
At least Vick got the opportunity to be redeemed, Jamarcus Russell didn't.
AY needs another organization (not another coach) to have a chance. I hope they pick Fisher over AY - because I fear that Carolina will scoop up Fisher - and I don't want another good coach in the Falcon's division.
9. Quaid
- 01/04/2011 4:22 pm CST
I think that Vince can be a great QB - I don't think he can be one at Tennessee. While he has handled himself horribly this season, I don't believe that Jeff Fisher did a stellar job of handling his situation, either.
If you look at QB ratings for this season, VY was in the top 5 of all starting QBs. (Behind Brady, Rivers, Rodgers and Vick) Granted, he isn't really a passing QB, but it's hard to lay the losses of the Titans solely at his feet. In his history with the team, I would argue that he is more responsible for winning games that could/should have been lost than losing games that could/should have been won (but I don't pay close attention to their games).
I think that with a decent coach who can invest in him both technically and on a personal level (I realize that this is high maintenance), VY could go far with a good team around him.
11. Shrode
- 01/05/2011 8:28 pm CST
Sigh....
Now that I finally understand and am into football...my chosen team tanks. (The 'Boys)
But that's OK. I went to Baylor. I can wait forever.
So when are we going to talk about the awesomeness that is Jason Witten? :-)
12. Shrode
- 01/05/2011 8:33 pm CST
On a barely related note, is it wrong for me to be liking Michael Vick? Cause I find myself rooting for that guy, and happy when he does well. (And I totally understood when Tashard Choice got Vick's autograph after a game.) Of course, maybe he should have made sure it wasn't on camera...
13. Shrode
- 01/05/2011 8:36 pm CST
And speaking of the Texans...you all have Wade Phillips as Defensive Coordinator now. Good luck with that. :-)
14. Jared
- 01/05/2011 8:37 pm CST
Shrode, I'm not a Vick fan, but I can't knock anybody for cheering for him. Except! How you gonna root for the Eagles when your Cowboys are in the same division?
And how you gonna become a Cowboys fan when you used to root for the 'Skins? That's, like, if Luke gave in to Vader.
15. Shrode
- 01/05/2011 8:57 pm CST
Well, I can root for him out loud now that the Cowboys are out of the playoffs! So that's what I was talking about...just this season's playoff's.
But even during that Game (cowboys vs. Eagles), I was rootin' for the 'Boys, but proud of Vick at the same time...if that makes sense?
I did use to be a Skins fan...as a child. But now living where we do, I had to make a choice when my son became aware of football. I could encourage him to root for the Skins...and be an outcast around here...especially since my wife's family are HUGE cowboys fans. Or I could just switch. The truth is, I haven't really rooted for or kept up with the Skins since Theisman and Riggins days, so it wasn't hard to switch.
I need to write a post on it I guess, but my evolution over the past two years from someone who really wasn't into sports, to an avid Pro football fan has been really fun. I did it for my son initially. But now I'm hooked. I'm still learning how things work, but I actually understand what's going on now... :-)
(Do you remember me arguing back in the Thinkling email days that sports were just the male version of soap operas? Man I wish I could take that back.)
I have had a blast rooting for the cowboys over the past two years. (Yes, even in a losing season.) It's fun to care whether your team wins or loses. I've never really had that before (in my adult life). To be honest, I was really just a Skins fan because:
I was a kid and lived near D.C.
The Redskins were winning a lot.
Theisman was awesome.
But that's behind me now. Go Cowboys!
16. Bill
- 01/05/2011 9:27 pm CST
And speaking of the Texans...you all have Wade Phillips as Defensive Coordinator now. Good luck with that. :-)
Is this a sarcastic "Good luck with that"? Or are you genuinely wishing us luck? :-)
Regarding this hire. He's a well-respected defensive coordinator with a record of success there, and it's hardly possible our defense could get worse (we were historically bad this season).
17. Shrode
- 01/06/2011 9:09 am CST
Sarcasm aside...you are probably right. He was successful as a defensive coordinator and being able to concentrate on just that, he'll probably do a good job, and will certainly help y'all improve. and he'll probably be quite motivated! :-)
18. Quaid
- 01/06/2011 9:38 am CST
Predictions for VY:
If he is the starter on his next team, how do you think he will do? Will he succeed?
My prediction if VY starts at his next team: I think if he can have a decent cast of athletes (RB/WR) around him AND (this is important) a solid OL, I think he will take his team to the playoffs.
19. Bill
- 01/06/2011 12:07 pm CST
More than one Houston sportswriter is already clamoring for us to sign him. For example.
Of course, they're not suggesting he come in and start. But he's a good athlete, and he could learn from our QB how to better handle himself. He could be used in Wildcat formations, as a receiver, etc.
I don't think it will happen, but I dunno.
I think for VY, though, no team is going to bring him in as the starter. He's damaged goods. If, however, he is willing to be a backup and gets a chance due to injury, who knows?
20. Bill
- 01/06/2011 12:09 pm CST
By the way, Quaid. There sure were a lot of "ifs" in your prediction. As they say:
if 'ifs' and 'buts'
were fruits and nuts
we'd have Christmas every day
:-)
What's your prediction as to whether he'll actually be picked up as the starter by another team?
21. Quaid
- 01/06/2011 12:53 pm CST
Unfortunately, he's at the mercy of Tennessee, I think (right?). He is not a free agent, but will be the subject of trade talks. So even if a team wants him as their starter, they may not have anything that Tennessee wants/needs with which to trade for him. Given this hurdle - I think it is doubtful that he will be a starter next year, but that isn't necessarily a comment on his capability to start weekly for an NFL team.
(How quickly we forget: just last season, after going 0-6 under Collins, Vince is named as the starter and the team goes 8-2. Nothing else was changed. How can his doubters explain this experience away???)
22. Bill
- 01/06/2011 12:59 pm CST
(How quickly we forget: just last season, after going 0-6 under Collins, Vince is named as the starter and the team goes 8-2. Nothing else was changed. How can his doubters explain this experience away???)
Well, keep in mind that the subject of this post is my original post/prediction, written in the midst of that run last year, that VY was back. I have since been brought down to earth (not that I was a big VY being back fan. I root for the Texans, so we aren't thrilled when the Titans are doing well)
So I guess I explain it away by what's happened since. VY is interesting, though - he does win more than lose when he starts. But he has no staying power/consistency to stay healthy and/or keep his starting job.
I wouldn't rule him out as a comeback player. But the chances for that get longer each year.
23. Quaid
- 01/06/2011 1:23 pm CST
I know that this will get me some flack, but I think VY's main downfall this season was Jeff Fisher. VY noted that he felt that Fisher never trusted him after news that the Titans were going to shop him around the NFL. Like a child whose father never voices support, respect or value, Vince was a player on a team whose head coach never supported, respected or valued much of what he did or offered to the team. Put simply, Fisher all but abdicated his role as coach, as it pertains to Vince Young.
It must kill Fisher that the success of his team last season was linked almost completely to Vince. What must hurt even more is that he was forced to play VY by the owner. Fisher can take no credit for any victory last season, but we certainly can lay defeat at his feet over the last two seasons.
Don't get me wrong - I think Fisher is a good coach, but - like Vince, may need another organization to oversee. In my opinion, Vince isn't the only skilled Titan that probably should find a different team. Fisher is no longer effective and ought be replaced.
But you bring up another question of Vince's chances at becoming a comeback player. If he does get a starting opportunity and goes 8-8, has he come back? What about 10-6? 12-4? I would argue that he will not be seen as a comeback kid, but as an athlete who would finally be realizing his potential - something he never has been allowed to do.
As far as staying healthy - it is difficult to do so in the NFL (ask Tony Romo, Steve Young, etc.) The Favres and Peyton Mannings of the league are great for a reason. Is VY great? probably not - but that doesn't mean he isn't really good.
24. Quaid
- 01/28/2011 8:26 am CST
Fisher is gone . . .
Even though sources are saying that this won't affect VY's status (according to ESPN.com), if I'm a new head coach and I have a player under contract who can win, I just might go with that guy instead of throwing caution to the draft or trades.
26. Bill
- 11/21/2011 6:39 am CST
Quad,
I didn't watch much of the game, but I'm not surprised. I think VY has some good intangibles. But for some reason 31 NFL teams don't think so, with one team willing to make him a back up. I've not understood that. We'll see what happens the rest of this season.
30. Quaid
- 11/21/2011 10:38 am CST
Well, it should be noted that he has never been without a team since he graduated college. The question is what keeps teams from starting him as opposed to listing him as a backup. I think this is a somewhat more complex issue.
Despite his winning percentage, he seems inconsistent and unreliable. What is more, I think he is seen as a loose cannon in the locker-room and off the field, although I don't know that this is his m.o.
Most of his issues came with coach Jeff Fisher. There were no problems at Texas. zero. none. nothing. I don't believe a switch flipped at the age of 22. He doesn't seem to me someone who has an inflated sense of entitlement.
For teams who are desperate for a new starter, they are more content to start with someone new from college (Bradford, McCoy, Newton and soon Luck, Weeden, Jones) than someone who has five years on the new guys.
I see Vince having a career closer to Kurt Warner. By staying on the bench, his body remains relatively healthy (although I acknowledge his injury this year). Meanwhile, he can maintain his athleticism. At some point in time, a team will need him to step up, he will, and he'll lead his team to a Superbowl.
31. Jared
- 11/21/2011 2:48 pm CST
I should say I was rooting for Vince last night b/c I can't stand the Giants, and that's saying something b/c I can't stand the Eagles really either. (I'm a Redskins guy when it comes to the NFC East, so yes, feel my pain.)
Alas, I don't think Young has proven he has the NFL chops and I don't think he will. I won't be sad to be proved wrong on that; even if he starts to enjoy some success, I wonder if it will be Vick-like: temporary, flashes of brilliance, marred by injuries and poor games, etc. Who knows?
I know my wife would love for him to do awesome since we have a framed, signed rookie jersey of his hiding in our closet she would love to be worth something. :-)
32. Bill
- 11/21/2011 3:08 pm CST
I too hope it works out for VY. I do think he has at least some of that "it" everyone's always talking about.
But I think football people look at other things, like completion percentage, injuries, etc. His completion percentage has been in the 50s and low 60s his whole career. He's passed for an average of 140 or so yards a game. For his first three years he had more interceptions and TDs. Currently with the Eagles he has 2 TDs and 4 interceptions.
You're right on the wins. He has a winning record, but greatness consists of consistently great play over time. Right or wrong, the NFL has decided that "he just wins" isn't a reason to make VY a starter.
Regarding your Kurt Warner comparison - Kurt came into the NFL with lots lower expectations, was cut from Green Bay, was a scrub, basically. When he got his chance with the Rams, though, he played absolutely brilliant. I've never thought of the Kurt Warner/VY comparison because, at least at this point, there is no comparison.
All that said - I hope the best for him and for him to prove everyone wrong.
33. Bill
- 11/21/2011 4:49 pm CST
(some more stats, not to pile on)
VY's W/L record is 31-17. Very good. Counting full seasons (his first five years) it's 30-17. That's about 9 games a season. But the only dominating year was 2009, when he went 8-2. His first two years he went 8-5 and 9-6, respectively. Not bad but not great. In his last season with the Titans he was 4-4. Throughout that time his TD to Interception ratio was .500 (42 TDs, 42 Interceptions) and his quarterback rating was 75.7
I'm getting this information here. Oddly enough, they don't count the game yesterday as a 4th quarter comeback drive (I didn't see the 4th quarter, so I don't actually know what VY did on that drive).
Kurt Warner's winning percentage isn't as high as VYs, but his QB rating is 93.7, and he has 80 more touchdowns than interceptions. And, obviously, a much larger sample set (116 starts to VYs 48. Warner also has more touchdowns than starts (208 for 116 starts), whereas VY has less (42 for 47 starts)
VY is a less extreme example than Tim Tebow, who has "on paper" much less quarterbacking ability. The NFL numbers guys do count, I believe, intangibles, but I think they get tripped up by what is a mediocre record, in everything but wins (and those wins spotty due to long absences with injuries - VY has never played a full season).
And now I apologize for going statistic-crazy on you!
Leave a Comment:
The Titans are in a bad way. (My Texans are too.)
I understand that Bud is behind VY, which may mean that he sacrifices the coach in favor of the former UT star.
Sadly, I think Jared's analysis is correct in that scrambling QBs don't win championships or create legacies. Don't get me wrong, Vick or someone similar may win a Superbowl one day, but I doubt, years from now, we'll see a list of the greatest NFL QBs of all time with scrambling QBs on the list. John Elway is probably the closest to fit that mold, but he was first and foremost a pocket passer who didn't mind breaking some eggs when he had to.