Excellent post.

" In fact, I feel a deep kinship with them. Even with ones I disagree with. They are my brothers."

This bothers me deeply. I am a Christian, but Jesus gave me the wrong genitalia to your brother.

And this is one of the reasons that I feel incomfortable around certain kinds of christians. They are naively androcentric.

I also feel uneasy when they mistake republicanism for christianity because I don't think they are the same thing. And I'm fairly conservative theological. That just doesn't translate into agreeing with republican policies.

Anastasia,

I have a deep, deep regard and respect for Christian women. I apologize for my use of "brothers" - but putting "brothers and sisters" everywhere sounded clumsy, and in some cases I was thinking of specific male bloggers, etc. as Ellen stated. I could have written this better, and for that I apologize.

Update 4/28: - well, maybe I wasn't trying hard enough. I've updated the post to make it more gender inclusive (which actually gets me closer to my real point anyway) where appropriate.

Yaaaay!
Finally, you wrote it, Bill. You wrote your heart.

I know this has been stirring around in you for years, and I'm so glad to finally see it written. It's beautiful. And the best line is probably the one quoted above by katelyn. (In fact, will you please consider this an official request to our beloved webmaster to add that quote to the qeue? I don't care if you don't think it's worthy. I'm telling you, it NEEDS to be in there. Pleeeeez? Pretty please? It's incredible and important.)

I think you should link to this post somehow over in your bio/profile. This post explains much of who you are, and frankly how much of us should be.

I also think this post is far too important have a generic title like "an open question." People need to find and read this, refer it to others, re-read it, quote from it and ponder it. It needs to be easier to find and refer to by title. May I suggest retitling it to better reflect it's content? If you need help, I'll bet the best blog readers in the world would give us some awesome suggestions. (I love thinkling commenters!)

This is something that has upset me a whole lot, too. In fact, I have backed off on surfing the Christian blogosphere, quite a bit, because it is so distressing, reading the many nasty accusations, judgments and condemnations of fellow Christians that are out there, in some corners. I'm not saying it's always wrong to point out and discuss problems or error--but I'm afraid I see the line of not judging "another man's servant" and "speaking the truth, in love" crossed far too often.

I have found that those who devote a major part of their blogging to criticizing their fellow Believers fall into two categories: the theologically correct and the politically correct. The theologically correct spend most of their time writing about the beliefs of those they believe to be heretics, apostates or just plain stupid. These types often discuss who is or isn't a 'real' Christian. The politically correct are always harping on what they perceive as their fellow Christian's hypocrisy, phoniness, intolerance and lack of social activism and involvement with the poor and oppressed.

Both of these groups often have legitimate complaints --however it is the manner, degree and spirit with which they address their complaints and interact with those with whom they disagree that is so upsetting and sad. It raises my blood pressure----and breaks my heart. They just don't get it. Of course, at various times, we have all been guilty of stupidity, theological error, hypocrisy, intolerance, lack of good works among the poor. But Love is what it's all about--and what I see in a lot of those complaints, posts and comments doesn't sound a whole lot like the description of Love in 1 Corinthians 13, which starts out telling us: "If I have all knowledge, and...all faith...but have not love, I am nothing...and though I give all my possessions to feed the poor..and have not love, it profits me nothing."

(Sorry, this subject gets me going, too.)

Well said, brother. Amen. This thought needs to be shared. I'm cross-posting this at my own blogs, and I encourage others to do the same.

[...] Bill (De) over at Thinklings shared a great thought about Christians loving Christians. All too often, groups of believers will say or do something that we consider embarrasing. But, we have to remember that those who genuinely trust Jesus daily for salvation are in the same family; they are part of the same bride. It is true that the covenant family of God may act like a dysfunctional family, and that may bother us. But never forget that we are still family, even if we number in billions rather than dozens. Bill’s call is not one of meaningless ecumenism. It is a call for us to love one another as Christ commands. So Christian, go love your brothers and sisters today, even the strange ones. [...]

Well said, Bill. We Christians are far more likely and willing to extend grace to our unbelieving friends that to our fellow disciples.

Now, I do think that a lot of Christians, myself included, might seem fake because, frankly, we are acting different from what our inner impulses dictate. Because we are trying to follow Christ while living in a broken world and in the body of our defeated and yet still active flesh. This daily dance of attempted obedience can look pretty clumsy and ridiculous sometimes. C.S. Lewis once said something to the effect that we should act out what Christ commands, even if we don't feel like it. In doing so, we begin to change and the act becomes real.

While you're talking about our love for one another, that piece reminded me of something a woman in my small group said a couple of weeks ago. She is a fairly new Christian and a recovering alcholic and she said that she is still distrustful of what she called "overly joyous Christians" because everyone hurts and no one can be that truly sunny all the time. She perceives these Christians to be fake and posing. That's bothered me and I need to talk to her about it, I guess. What I want to say to her is that it is possible to have real joy in the midst of pain and that acting joyfully doesn't not mean we're being fake, but that we're seeking that joy even if we don't "feel" it. Does that make sense?

Thanks for your gentle and loving admonishment, Bill.

I whole-heartedly agree with this! Our church went through a time of change not long ago. Our members were bickering abour a mulititude of things and our pastor had just about had enough. He made a point that we (Christians) were all on the boat arguing about how we got on the boat, when we got on the boat, should there be singing on the boat, was there only one way to get on the boat, etc. In the meantime there were people all around us drowning.

Fantastic thoughts, Bill. For once I'll skip the usual teasing and just say thanks for a challenging (to me) reminder.

Hi Danny,

"How am I to consider the brother or sister who hates certain people and want to bring harm to them? I don't believe I can wrap my arms around them and say to non-Christians, "Hey everybody! Look at my brother over here. Isn't he awesome?".
Am I just to accept their actions and beliefs as something stemming from a true faith and love?".

No. :-)

The problem is, though, that what we tend to do is just remove ourselves from the fellowship of Christians who aren't like us. This is not biblical. The true answer is much more difficult - exhort, reprove, correct, love. We're to weep with those who weep, bear burdens, etc. Your racist brother needs correction, teaching. God isn't satisfied with that flaw and neither are you.

So the choice is this:

1) saying "This imperfect yet redeemed soul is my brother. I will pray for him and teach him, as he does the same for me, as we both conform to Christ"

and the other (easier and more frequent) response:

2) saying "All Christians are racists".

Tangent: is "holy discontent" a Biblical phrase, or from one of the church fathers? It's in one of my favorite songs, but I didn't know it was a reference to something else. Or was Glenn thinking of Donne in his comment above?

On-topic: Please don't get too nice, everyone. That's what terrifies me about the people at the church I go to--they're so sweet that I hardly dare talk to them for fear of saying something unforgivable by accident. Around here, the slight note of snarkiness is about the only aspect of the local culture I can get a firm grip on--I'd totally lose my bearings without it.

Can't we try to love each other...in a grouchy way?

"Can't we try to love each other"in a grouchy way?"

dbd,

[De chokes back tears]
I LOVE YOU MAN!!!



Now ... shut up.

Isn't it a bit over the top to say that Christians hate each other? Bicker, disagree, feud, criticize but hate?

Stan

It might be over the top. It depends on how you define hate. The sense I'm using here is one of complete disdain. But please don't get hung up on the word.

Mandi - I obviously don't know the man, but I don't think there's a sure guarantee he's even a Christian. Wow.

Now, question: bound by confidentiality? In our church, even if a student confidentially confesses about a sexual abuse/sexual exploitation/etc situation we are bound to report it. This man should be in jail.

Are you bound by confidentiality because she told you this in confidence? I would suggest that you need to rethink that. He needs to be brought to justice, her parents need to know, she needs help. Otherwise, in a year there will be a third abortion.

I don't mean to pry. But I seriously ask that you pray through what you should do. Get good counsel. I obviously don't know the circumstances, but if she confessed this to you in private and it later comes out publicly you could be held liable for not having come forward with the information.

I'm praying that justice will be done in this situation, and that health and healing can come to that girl and her family.

Well said, Mandi.

Why do we do it? Because our faith is in our point of view, not our Saviour. If you challenge my point of view you are challenging my faith and the foundation of my life.
Thanks for this post. I wouldn't classify it as a rant. More an intercessory groan.

"... Because we are trying to follow Christ while living in a broken world and in the body of our defeated and yet still active flesh. This daily dance of attempted obedience can look pretty clumsy and ridiculous sometimes...

Man that is absolutely poetic. I've already cut 'n pasted that one into my quote files alongside Lewis and all the rest.

Great Post.

Great Post, De!
When I returned to the church after about 15 years, the first thing I noticed was all the hypocrites, fake Christians and stupid people had disappeared from the church. I am well aware they are still there. So either the church changed in 15 years, or I changed. I think it is best to assume the latter. My point is simply that when I came back to the church I was seeing with the eyes of faith, seeing the "little Christ" in others, rather than seeing their human, broken ways or seeing the things that justified my angry, frustrated, hypocritical, fake, stupid self. It was a beautiful realization and your post reminded me of that.
Peace, brother.
Seth

Bill, just wanted you to know that the post from "Virgil" is not me. Your's is an excellent post. I'm proud. papa

Thanks for the AWESOME exhortation. :-D

Scott,

Well said.

I dunno, Shrode - it just seems sorta presumptuous to change the title.

Thanks Shrode.

I'm weird. I know